4 ms·

The fact that most browsers aggressively push or even force updates should not be used as a justification for this. You're essentially saying "I want to use th

by 2h 3y ago

The fact that most browsers aggressively push or even force updates should not be used as a justification for this. You're essentially saying "I want to use this months old API, and fuck you if you still have a browser from last year." People used to respect some amount of backward compatibility.

crazygringo 3y ago
Browsers used to not auto-update. There's no reason to "respect" backwards compatibility in an inherently online product that auto-updates. There's nothing ideological here, it's just about being practical.
- 2h 3y ago
  not sure about Chrome, but you can turn off update on Firefox. I do this, and for good reason. I dont like the constant churn of browser UI moving around and changing every few months. So users in that situation should not be punished by web devs who only support the bleeding edge browser versions.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    Then that's on you. When 90% of users are on the newest version within a couple weeks, that's not "bleeding edge". It's mainstream. You're also opening yourself up to security vulnerabilities as you browse. If you turn off auto update, it's up to you to accept the consequences of both security risks and of sites breaking.
    - 2h 3y ago
      > Then that's on you. you say that like I am the only person who does this. > When 90% of users are on the newest version within a couple weeks, that's not "bleeding edge". [citation needed]
      - akarlsten 3y ago
        > you say that like I am the only person who does this. Essentially, yes: https://caniuse.com/usage-table https://caniuse.com/usage-table
        2h 3y ago
        2.7% of ALL browser usage is still a significant number, and certainly more than one person.
        superkuh 3y ago
        caniuse uses statscounter. It's really no surprise that statistics collected via javascript fail to include browsers that aren't executing it or don't have the modern JS "features" it uses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect
  - orhmeh09 3y ago
    Web devs should not punish such users, agreed. Who will pay extra on top of the hourly rate to address the needs you have? Especially when it's your problem with somebody else's software (Firefox) that would require this extra investment.
    - 2h 3y ago
      its not a problem with the software, its a problem with the web site adding features that only work with the newest browser, without any fallback for older browsers.
- jlokier 3y ago
  Fwiw, Safari doesn't auto-update beyond a certain point if you are not running the latest OS version from Apple, which may be for several good reasons, but your hardware being unable to run it is surely the top reason. And neither Firefox nor Chrome self-updated beyond a certain point on my few years old Android tablet, which is still generally very usable for browsing and YouTube. And the browser on one of my phones stopped updating, once the OS stopped getting upgrades, for about 2 years before I stopped using that phone (because there was nothing as good as it to upgrade to). Non-latest browsers are a small percentage of users, but it's a myth some site designers believe that all Chrome, Firefox and Safari installs auto-update to latest versions except where the user decided for themselves to block updates. To the owner of devices in generally great shape, that work fine with alnost all sites, sites designed with the bleeding-edge assunption can feel a bit "unnecessarily buy a new version of the exact same electronics with your copious spare cash and litter some e-waste landfill to view our content today!". Site designer's choice of course. But it's a myth that the current mainstrean browsers stay up to date by default for everyone who doesn't disable it. Some users can't update. This should particularly be in the awareness of designers wanting sites to be readable by people without much disposable income, or some accessibility issues.
Dalewyn 3y ago
In times past I would have fervently agreed with you. But in this day and age of browsers being Chrome and Chrome and Chrome and Chrome and Safari, all with forced autoupdates, there's little practical weight behind "browser <X> doesn't support it!". If Chrome supports it, the internet supports it whether any of us like it or not.

by 2h 3y ago

crazygringo 3y ago

Browsers used to not auto-update. There's no reason to "respect" backwards compatibility in an inherently online product that auto-updates. There's nothing ideological here, it's just about being practical.

2h 3y ago
not sure about Chrome, but you can turn off update on Firefox. I do this, and for good reason. I dont like the constant churn of browser UI moving around and changing every few months. So users in that situation should not be punished by web devs who only support the bleeding edge browser versions.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Then that's on you. When 90% of users are on the newest version within a couple weeks, that's not "bleeding edge". It's mainstream. You're also opening yourself up to security vulnerabilities as you browse. If you turn off auto update, it's up to you to accept the consequences of both security risks and of sites breaking.
  - 2h 3y ago
    > Then that's on you. you say that like I am the only person who does this. > When 90% of users are on the newest version within a couple weeks, that's not "bleeding edge". [citation needed]
    - akarlsten 3y ago
      > you say that like I am the only person who does this. Essentially, yes: https://caniuse.com/usage-table https://caniuse.com/usage-table
      - 2h 3y ago
        2.7% of ALL browser usage is still a significant number, and certainly more than one person.
      - superkuh 3y ago
        caniuse uses statscounter. It's really no surprise that statistics collected via javascript fail to include browsers that aren't executing it or don't have the modern JS "features" it uses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect
- orhmeh09 3y ago
  Web devs should not punish such users, agreed. Who will pay extra on top of the hourly rate to address the needs you have? Especially when it's your problem with somebody else's software (Firefox) that would require this extra investment.
  - 2h 3y ago
    its not a problem with the software, its a problem with the web site adding features that only work with the newest browser, without any fallback for older browsers.
jlokier 3y ago
Fwiw, Safari doesn't auto-update beyond a certain point if you are not running the latest OS version from Apple, which may be for several good reasons, but your hardware being unable to run it is surely the top reason. And neither Firefox nor Chrome self-updated beyond a certain point on my few years old Android tablet, which is still generally very usable for browsing and YouTube. And the browser on one of my phones stopped updating, once the OS stopped getting upgrades, for about 2 years before I stopped using that phone (because there was nothing as good as it to upgrade to). Non-latest browsers are a small percentage of users, but it's a myth some site designers believe that all Chrome, Firefox and Safari installs auto-update to latest versions except where the user decided for themselves to block updates. To the owner of devices in generally great shape, that work fine with alnost all sites, sites designed with the bleeding-edge assunption can feel a bit "unnecessarily buy a new version of the exact same electronics with your copious spare cash and litter some e-waste landfill to view our content today!". Site designer's choice of course. But it's a myth that the current mainstrean browsers stay up to date by default for everyone who doesn't disable it. Some users can't update. This should particularly be in the awareness of designers wanting sites to be readable by people without much disposable income, or some accessibility issues.

Dalewyn 3y ago

In times past I would have fervently agreed with you. But in this day and age of browsers being Chrome and Chrome and Chrome and Chrome and Safari, all with forced autoupdates, there's little practical weight behind "browser <X> doesn't support it!". If Chrome supports it, the internet supports it whether any of us like it or not.