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> these sort of issues where people overwhelmingly feel one way, and the political establishment feels another? Yeah, those are all strangely absent. I feel th

> these sort of issues where people overwhelmingly feel one way, and the political establishment feels another? Yeah, those are all strangely absent. I feel that Sanders' nomination campaigns epitomized this divide: He spoke for the people. Many more people donated for him than any other candidate, his supporters were diverse and enthusiastic. He was the number one most popular politician in the entire country. Yet media - quite openly - gave him far less coverage, were 3x more negative in the coverage they did give, studiously ignored the attacks and cheating from the political establishment, systematically smeared his supporters, and then blamed him when Hilary (number one disliked Democrat in America) lost. And smart people, rational people with functioning memories, apparently, seemed to just... not want to talk about it. And then it happened again, with even more obvious collusion, four years later. And we talked about it even less, just relieved that we wouldn't have another 4 years of that. Bringing it all up now feels like you're reopening someone else's closed scab. People are auto-rewriting their own version history to help themselves feel less abused, it seems. They don't want to hear it. And this is (many of) the people who were even clued in to it all in the first place. Only Sanders wanted Snowden to be honored for his actions. Hilary wanted him to "face the music". It could all hardly be more obvious. And yet...

kelipso 4y ago
It really shows how much effect the media and the social and political environment it creates influence the thoughts and feelings of people, however highly educated and intelligent they are. If you think you are not influenced by media and propaganda, consider yourself very wrong, the best propaganda is when you don't even consider it propaganda, and the US probably has the most effective propaganda machine in the entire world.
copper-float 4y ago
We need to shift the dynamic in America from relying on these media conglomerates, to individuals doing their own research on things. Everyone knows the news media is rigged beyond saving, we need to let them die out, it's what they all deserve for betraying the trust of the people.
- mandmandam 4y ago
  Media megacorporations won't die on their own. As much money as they lose; they make enough returns for their owners in indirect ways to be worth the investment. Murdoch and Turner are many things, but poor isn't one of them. Btw, did anyone else find it disturbing how "do your own research" became a trigger phrase that allows a rather large group of people to discount anything and everything you said? And at the same time, for an opposite but similar group of people, "trust the science" did the same thing?
  - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
    trusting science / expertise has always been a turn-off for a certain portion of people with some sort of inferiority or persecution complex or oppositional defiant disorder unfortunately some politicians seek to gain power by appealing to this
    - mandmandam 4y ago
      Sure, that's a hallowed tradition in America. And at the same time, blindly trusting institutions and their dogma has long been a turn-on for people with a superiority complex, or those content with the status quo. Each cheek of the political arse seeks to gain power by simplistically appealing to these groups, because it's more effective for raising funds and votes than it ought to be.
      - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
        perhaps, perhaps not one thing is for sure, though: falsely portraying trust in expertise and science as, "blindly trusting institutions and their dogma" or "for people with a superiority complex, or those content with the status quo", has been a trope of those same anti-science, anti-expertise politicians for even longer. As Asimov wrote: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
brnaftr361 4y ago
Much the same could be said about Ron Paul. I think that's worth a pitch because their policies are diametrically opposed, the results however were staggeringly similar.

kelipso 4y ago

It really shows how much effect the media and the social and political environment it creates influence the thoughts and feelings of people, however highly educated and intelligent they are. If you think you are not influenced by media and propaganda, consider yourself very wrong, the best propaganda is when you don't even consider it propaganda, and the US probably has the most effective propaganda machine in the entire world.

copper-float 4y ago

We need to shift the dynamic in America from relying on these media conglomerates, to individuals doing their own research on things. Everyone knows the news media is rigged beyond saving, we need to let them die out, it's what they all deserve for betraying the trust of the people.

mandmandam 4y ago
Media megacorporations won't die on their own. As much money as they lose; they make enough returns for their owners in indirect ways to be worth the investment. Murdoch and Turner are many things, but poor isn't one of them. Btw, did anyone else find it disturbing how "do your own research" became a trigger phrase that allows a rather large group of people to discount anything and everything you said? And at the same time, for an opposite but similar group of people, "trust the science" did the same thing?
- ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
  trusting science / expertise has always been a turn-off for a certain portion of people with some sort of inferiority or persecution complex or oppositional defiant disorder unfortunately some politicians seek to gain power by appealing to this
  - mandmandam 4y ago
    Sure, that's a hallowed tradition in America. And at the same time, blindly trusting institutions and their dogma has long been a turn-on for people with a superiority complex, or those content with the status quo. Each cheek of the political arse seeks to gain power by simplistically appealing to these groups, because it's more effective for raising funds and votes than it ought to be.
    - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
      perhaps, perhaps not one thing is for sure, though: falsely portraying trust in expertise and science as, "blindly trusting institutions and their dogma" or "for people with a superiority complex, or those content with the status quo", has been a trope of those same anti-science, anti-expertise politicians for even longer. As Asimov wrote: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

brnaftr361 4y ago

Much the same could be said about Ron Paul. I think that's worth a pitch because their policies are diametrically opposed, the results however were staggeringly similar.