5 ms·

The problem of VR goes beyond hardware innovation: most people don’t want to completely shut themselves off from the world for hours on end.

by muglug 3y ago

monero-xmr 3y ago
I have friends that got married, never had kids, and spend large chunks of their free time in MMORPGs, League of Legends, and a seemingly endless array of virtual-based entertainment. They also seem to get a lot of personal meaning and satisfaction from nerd pop culture like Star Wars and The Lord of the Rings which is evidence that their rich fantasy lives have such deep meaning for them. So I find it totally plausible that a huge amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world, provided it wasn’t clunky and caused headaches.
- roydivision 3y ago
  You have a few friends != large number of people will do the same.
  - monero-xmr 3y ago
    I take the entire breadth of my lived experience when trying to predict the future, and I place high value on anecdata. My strategies have served me well thus far, but if you want to outsource all of your thinking to “experts”, good luck to you.
    - kibwen 3y ago
      You don't need to "outsource all of your thinking to experts" to understand that data is not the plural of anecdote. I, too, know people who met their future spouse online. However, after meeting online, they invariably meet in person before getting married, and then live together after getting married. Even the most plugged-in exemplars of the metaverse can't escape from the desire to interact outside of it.
      - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
        recurring reminder - the original quote is "the plural of anecdote is data" http://blog.danwin.com/don-t-forget-the-plural-of-anecdote-is-data/ http://blog.danwin.com/don-t-forget-the-plural-of-anecdote-i...
        fuzzybiscuit 3y ago
        that was an excellent read and dispelled the attempt to recast the phrases negation.
      - khazhoux 3y ago
        And yet, while HN places zero trust in anecdata and personal observation, it it critical in real life decision-making. Most mega-successful entrepreneurs got there by trusting their instincts, not disregarding their own observations and instead only ever searching for studies conducted by others. So while I agree with your point overall, I think here on HN we're too quick to dismiss people's personal stories.
- marsven_422 3y ago
  [dead]
- irrational 3y ago
  > So I find it totally plausible that a huge amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world I, on the other hand, know nobody that uses virtual worlds. I find it plausible that a tiny amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world. I find it completely implausible that a huge amount of people would.
  - b112 3y ago
    I find it completely implausible that a huge amount of people would. But people already do. Email, Facebook, twitter, messaging, slack, all of it, is by no means real, human interaction. It is a step away from that. Some even say that this type of interaction is so fake, so filled with disinformation, and algorithmic monkeying, that it is toxic poison. Yet people will be with friends at a restaurant, or hanging out, and so addicted, so unable to stop, that they are constantly be staring at their screen instead of interacting in person! People cannot help themselves, and people cannot resist addictive platforms. So sadly, Zuck probably has a good idea. He's probably a bit early, but you can be sure when VR takes a Musk implant, and a simple pair of glasses for full immersion, people will be in VR while having lunch with you.
    - spacemadness 3y ago
      It’s a huge jump from what you mentioned rather than a “small step away.” (I see you edited your post, but I’m sticking with the original quote) Everything you mentioned can be done in short spurts of time and interwoven with other parts of someones life. VR as it stands today is way too burdensome and all consuming to pull that off. I’m not even getting into the additional hardware costs.
    - irrational 3y ago
      None of those things you mentioned are an immersive virtual world, at least not by how I understand that concept.
      - CamperBob2 3y ago
pipeline_peak 3y ago
Also who wants a large pair of goggles strapped to their face? It’s such a chore to take it on and off when you can just look away from a screen. VR belongs in the 80s
jstanley 3y ago
100 years ago people would have said the same about having the internet in your house and using the computer of an evening. In the future, if everything you care about is in VR, then not being in VR would be shutting yourself off from the world, the same as not using the internet is shutting oneself off from the world today (for some of us).
- kibwen 3y ago
  A future where "everything that you care about is in VR" describes a hellish dystopia. Even in a future where humans spend large amounts of time in virtual spaces, our meat bodies still appreciate going for walks in the park.
  - MikeTheRocker 3y ago
    The average American spends something like 3 hours per day watching TV, and upwards of 6 hours of total screen time, according to a quick Google search. Is it really that much of a stretch to imagine a world where the screens we use are part of a head-mounted display? Think about any time you've been on a bus, train or plane -- most people on board are using their phones or tablets. I suspect within this decade it's common for those devices to be supplanted by AR/VR headsets.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      > The average American spends something like 3 hours per day watching TV Would Better Call Saul be a better story in VR? One of the things that makes shows and movies good is tight editing and focus; a VR system where I can look around is the antithesis of that. Same way I feel about open world games like GTA V vs. something like Bioshock which is highly linear but also highly directed. But FWIW I'm totally with you about the airplane headset, never have I wanted to be somewhere else then when I'm on a plane...
  - b112 3y ago
    A future where "everything that you care about is in VR" describes a hellish dystopia Isn't that the way it is now? Used to be, you'd all get together at the town hall, to discuss problems with the city. Now people use twitter and Facebook, and community involvement is at an all time low. We're already in VR version 1. Nothing online is "real"! In VR2 people will still go for walks in the park, but just as now, where everone is walking and staring at their phone, people will be in VR2 while walking their dog.
sp332 3y ago
If my friends and I are socializing in VR, it's not exactly shut off from the world. Anyway Hololens and Apple's upcoming XR glasses don't block out the world in the first place.
amerkhalid 3y ago
I sold my Quest 2 because I rarely ever used after initial honeymoon period. It was clunky and required too much preparation before put it on. But I am looking forward to Quest 3. Because I really miss the part of completely shutting off from my surroundings and being transported elsewhere. And really enjoyed random conversations in Table Tennis game and in their VR World thing. Only after selling it, I realized how much those few minutes in it were worth. EDIT: Now I think VR/meta is correct long term move.
- sersi 3y ago
  That's exactly my feeling, I have a valve index and got my parents a quest. It's still new technology, it's still clunky but it will get better and I've had really amazing moments with VR. I think the Meta beta is correct long term. It might be too early right now but I think long term, it's the correct move
grumbel 3y ago
That's solvable, just add proper stereo pass-through cameras to turn the VR headset into an AR headset. The Lenovo Mirage Solo[1] had that four years ago, due to the death of the whole Daydream platform it didn't see much use outside of YoutubeVR, but there it works great. You just hit a button and you can see the world around you while watching Youtube. Quest2 has been adding similar functionality over the last year, though the image quality of the pass-through still leaves a lot to be desired, but that can be fixed in future headsets. Depths sensors will also make they way into headsets sooner or later and allow much more flexible integration between real world and virtual objects. Hololens could do that years ago, but the VR space still needs to do some catch up. [1] https://www.uploadvr.com/mirage-solo-is-getting-pass-through-support-with-depth-perception-and-ar/ https://www.uploadvr.com/mirage-solo-is-getting-pass-through...
fmajid 3y ago
No, the problem is you can't really move in the VR environment with current-generation products, so that ruins the illusion. But I think Apple is on the right track in betting on AR rather than VR. Meta's other problem is that while it owns an overwhelming share of VR headsets thanks to subsidies, it is a pitiful also-ran in services with Horizon compared to the real leaders, Fortnite and Minecraft.
purplecircle 3y ago
the problem isn't in VR per se. the problem is the current iterations of VR hw/sw. while quest 2 has solved some problems, there are still hurdles to usability. but these hurdles aren't inherent to VR.

The problem of VR goes beyond hardware innovation: most people don’t want to completely shut themselves off from the world for hours on end.

by muglug 3y ago

The problem of VR goes beyond hardware innovation: most people don’t want to completely shut themselves off from the world for hours on end.

monero-xmr 3y ago

I have friends that got married, never had kids, and spend large chunks of their free time in MMORPGs, League of Legends, and a seemingly endless array of virtual-based entertainment. They also seem to get a lot of personal meaning and satisfaction from nerd pop culture like Star Wars and The Lord of the Rings which is evidence that their rich fantasy lives have such deep meaning for them. So I find it totally plausible that a huge amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world, provided it wasn’t clunky and caused headaches.

roydivision 3y ago
You have a few friends != large number of people will do the same.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  I take the entire breadth of my lived experience when trying to predict the future, and I place high value on anecdata. My strategies have served me well thus far, but if you want to outsource all of your thinking to “experts”, good luck to you.
  - kibwen 3y ago
    You don't need to "outsource all of your thinking to experts" to understand that data is not the plural of anecdote. I, too, know people who met their future spouse online. However, after meeting online, they invariably meet in person before getting married, and then live together after getting married. Even the most plugged-in exemplars of the metaverse can't escape from the desire to interact outside of it.
    - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
      recurring reminder - the original quote is "the plural of anecdote is data" http://blog.danwin.com/don-t-forget-the-plural-of-anecdote-is-data/ http://blog.danwin.com/don-t-forget-the-plural-of-anecdote-i...
      - fuzzybiscuit 3y ago
        that was an excellent read and dispelled the attempt to recast the phrases negation.
    - khazhoux 3y ago
      And yet, while HN places zero trust in anecdata and personal observation, it it critical in real life decision-making. Most mega-successful entrepreneurs got there by trusting their instincts, not disregarding their own observations and instead only ever searching for studies conducted by others. So while I agree with your point overall, I think here on HN we're too quick to dismiss people's personal stories.
marsven_422 3y ago
[dead]
irrational 3y ago
> So I find it totally plausible that a huge amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world I, on the other hand, know nobody that uses virtual worlds. I find it plausible that a tiny amount of people would spend large amounts of time in a more immersive virtual world. I find it completely implausible that a huge amount of people would.
- b112 3y ago
  I find it completely implausible that a huge amount of people would. But people already do. Email, Facebook, twitter, messaging, slack, all of it, is by no means real, human interaction. It is a step away from that. Some even say that this type of interaction is so fake, so filled with disinformation, and algorithmic monkeying, that it is toxic poison. Yet people will be with friends at a restaurant, or hanging out, and so addicted, so unable to stop, that they are constantly be staring at their screen instead of interacting in person! People cannot help themselves, and people cannot resist addictive platforms. So sadly, Zuck probably has a good idea. He's probably a bit early, but you can be sure when VR takes a Musk implant, and a simple pair of glasses for full immersion, people will be in VR while having lunch with you.
  - spacemadness 3y ago
    It’s a huge jump from what you mentioned rather than a “small step away.” (I see you edited your post, but I’m sticking with the original quote) Everything you mentioned can be done in short spurts of time and interwoven with other parts of someones life. VR as it stands today is way too burdensome and all consuming to pull that off. I’m not even getting into the additional hardware costs.
  - irrational 3y ago
    None of those things you mentioned are an immersive virtual world, at least not by how I understand that concept.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago

pipeline_peak 3y ago

Also who wants a large pair of goggles strapped to their face? It’s such a chore to take it on and off when you can just look away from a screen. VR belongs in the 80s

jstanley 3y ago

100 years ago people would have said the same about having the internet in your house and using the computer of an evening. In the future, if everything you care about is in VR, then not being in VR would be shutting yourself off from the world, the same as not using the internet is shutting oneself off from the world today (for some of us).

kibwen 3y ago
A future where "everything that you care about is in VR" describes a hellish dystopia. Even in a future where humans spend large amounts of time in virtual spaces, our meat bodies still appreciate going for walks in the park.
- MikeTheRocker 3y ago
  The average American spends something like 3 hours per day watching TV, and upwards of 6 hours of total screen time, according to a quick Google search. Is it really that much of a stretch to imagine a world where the screens we use are part of a head-mounted display? Think about any time you've been on a bus, train or plane -- most people on board are using their phones or tablets. I suspect within this decade it's common for those devices to be supplanted by AR/VR headsets.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    > The average American spends something like 3 hours per day watching TV Would Better Call Saul be a better story in VR? One of the things that makes shows and movies good is tight editing and focus; a VR system where I can look around is the antithesis of that. Same way I feel about open world games like GTA V vs. something like Bioshock which is highly linear but also highly directed. But FWIW I'm totally with you about the airplane headset, never have I wanted to be somewhere else then when I'm on a plane...
- b112 3y ago
  A future where "everything that you care about is in VR" describes a hellish dystopia Isn't that the way it is now? Used to be, you'd all get together at the town hall, to discuss problems with the city. Now people use twitter and Facebook, and community involvement is at an all time low. We're already in VR version 1. Nothing online is "real"! In VR2 people will still go for walks in the park, but just as now, where everone is walking and staring at their phone, people will be in VR2 while walking their dog.

sp332 3y ago

If my friends and I are socializing in VR, it's not exactly shut off from the world. Anyway Hololens and Apple's upcoming XR glasses don't block out the world in the first place.

amerkhalid 3y ago

I sold my Quest 2 because I rarely ever used after initial honeymoon period. It was clunky and required too much preparation before put it on. But I am looking forward to Quest 3. Because I really miss the part of completely shutting off from my surroundings and being transported elsewhere. And really enjoyed random conversations in Table Tennis game and in their VR World thing. Only after selling it, I realized how much those few minutes in it were worth. EDIT: Now I think VR/meta is correct long term move.

sersi 3y ago
That's exactly my feeling, I have a valve index and got my parents a quest. It's still new technology, it's still clunky but it will get better and I've had really amazing moments with VR. I think the Meta beta is correct long term. It might be too early right now but I think long term, it's the correct move

grumbel 3y ago

That's solvable, just add proper stereo pass-through cameras to turn the VR headset into an AR headset. The Lenovo Mirage Solo[1] had that four years ago, due to the death of the whole Daydream platform it didn't see much use outside of YoutubeVR, but there it works great. You just hit a button and you can see the world around you while watching Youtube. Quest2 has been adding similar functionality over the last year, though the image quality of the pass-through still leaves a lot to be desired, but that can be fixed in future headsets. Depths sensors will also make they way into headsets sooner or later and allow much more flexible integration between real world and virtual objects. Hololens could do that years ago, but the VR space still needs to do some catch up. [1] https://www.uploadvr.com/mirage-solo-is-getting-pass-through-support-with-depth-perception-and-ar/ https://www.uploadvr.com/mirage-solo-is-getting-pass-through...

fmajid 3y ago

No, the problem is you can't really move in the VR environment with current-generation products, so that ruins the illusion. But I think Apple is on the right track in betting on AR rather than VR. Meta's other problem is that while it owns an overwhelming share of VR headsets thanks to subsidies, it is a pitiful also-ran in services with Horizon compared to the real leaders, Fortnite and Minecraft.

purplecircle 3y ago

the problem isn't in VR per se. the problem is the current iterations of VR hw/sw. while quest 2 has solved some problems, there are still hurdles to usability. but these hurdles aren't inherent to VR.