7 ms·

> There appears to be no other punishment: Tesla has to promise to not break the law in future. Jesus. Can someone explain how worker’s rights laws became so t

> There appears to be no other punishment: Tesla has to promise to not break the law in future. Jesus. Can someone explain how worker’s rights laws became so toothless?

DoctorNick 4y ago
When the bourgeoisie is in the drivers seat of your government, their interests come first.
- morkalork 4y ago
  Turns out buckets of money speak the loudest. It's wildly disenfranchising when things like the wife of a supreme court justice getting paid $10M by law firms who have cases in front of the court don't go severely punished.
- Grazester 4y ago
  With so much money being pedaled to politician via lobbyist etc, it's impossible not to have a "bourgeoisie" in there.
tyingq 4y ago
Maybe opens a door for a civil suit for the worker that was fired? Having a document in hand where the NLRB is saying some of the events associated with your firing were illegal probably helps.
atkailash 4y ago
[dead]
throwaway5959 4y ago
[flagged]
- misssocrates 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - daveguy 4y ago
      [flagged]
  - enraged_camel 4y ago
    People always bring up San Francisco in these arguments as some sort of "gotcha", even though they know full well that it is an extreme outlier for many reasons.
    - misssocrates 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - Zetobal 4y ago
        [flagged]
  - radhad 4y ago
    [dead]
- prottog 4y ago
  "People that disagree with my beliefs must be doing it out of bad faith", an argument that never dies.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - prottog 4y ago
      I was referring to GP's claim that they "hate government". Believing that the federal government has evolved beyond what the Constitution legally permits and working to make it smaller isn't the same thing as hatefully burning it all down, which was the implication I took out of their comment.
      - Arainach 4y ago
        Conveniently, Republicans aren't "working to make it smaller" and are "hatefully burning it all down" as seen in their constant debt limit antics, their lack of any cohesive platform, Grover Norquist's comments about drowning the government in a bathtub, their abuse of the filibuster to block anything at all from passing rather than working on compromise, and many more examples.
      - ethanbond 4y ago
        Hate is maybe too emotional a word but your entire comment is just another way of saying “they don’t like and wish to dismantle some parts of government,” which is not substantially different in practice. The thrust of GP’s claim is: you elect people who wish to dismantle government and you get a dysfunctional government.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      When did republicans succeed in doing any of those things? The filibuster prevents any of these things from being more than rhetoric.
      - 4y ago
- tshaddox 4y ago
  Since both parties have a track record of increasing the size and scope of government in most measurable ways I can think of, I’m not even sure which half you’re talking about!
  - radhad 4y ago
    [dead]
- kwere 4y ago
  if the government was just a little more powerful, every problem will be solved One more lane argument level
Natsu 4y ago
This conflict appears to be a single manager who told people not to complain about new people being hired at higher rates or to discuss wages, in conflict with Tesla's own policies on the matter. I would probably expect them just to fire that manager and move on, though it's possible a few individual employees would have some sort of claim.
- abeppu 4y ago
  > The same supervisor also told employees in the meeting not to complain "about pay or any other issues" to anyone higher than the regional manager. The "or any other issues" is extremely broad, and seems reckless. When an employee then tried to _internally_ escalate a concern, that employee was suspended and fired. A minimal slap on the wrist means that Tesla is likely to continue to suppress discussions of wages or workplace conditions, which sucks for workers -- but if the message coming out of this is that escalating _any_ concern above local management is likely to get you fired, I wonder what other kinds of issues will go unaddressed? Workplace safety issues? _Product_ safety issues? Would some of the quality control issues that were in the press some time ago have been more quickly addressed if internal communication didn't put people at risk of being fired? An organization in which people cannot honestly escalate concerns _internally_ is dysfunctional, and has the potential to create harms for customers and shareholders in addition to employees.
  - Natsu 4y ago
    Oh, it's definitely harmful to have a manager saying things like that. Fortunately, this story seems to be about precisely one person. I'd be surprised if they didn't give this guy the boot.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      One manager, and their supervisor. Either the supervisor was negligent in doing their job, or supported the manager. HR should probably be more on the ball too. And implemented policies/procedures. There's never just one person who messes up. Kinda like how it's never just the Junior Dev's fault when they delete the production database.
kiltedpanda 4y ago
...and they had to put up posters outlining worker rights. Almost 100% of the comments in this thread seem to gloss over the fact that this lawsuit was due to the actions of one manager in an autobody store. And his actions were counter to Tesla's official policy which clearly states that it is acceptable to discuss salary. Based on the comments alone you'd think the article was about a class action suit. Why extrapolate the actions of one person to those of the entire organization? Go look at the job board on the Tesla website. Their salaries and benefits look great to me.
- slily 4y ago
  To Musk haters, any bit of news concerning Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter, etc. is just waiting to be spun into a negative headline that can then be an excuse to whine about him. Somehow the smear campaign against him seems to be more effective than most in shaping opinion in the tech sphere. I've noticed coworkers whom I thought were reasonable rational people turn into playground-bully types since the Twitter acquisition, bringing him up in work-related chatrooms just to insult him, sharing hit pieces, memes and tweets with the same intent, etc. Others seem afraid of getting cancelled for praising anything he does, and preface any positive or neutral statement about him with "I think he's a <some negative trait>, but...".
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
    I'm not a musk hater because of this sort of thing, I'm a musk hater because of Elon's own words and actions which consistently show him to be a shit person.
    - millerm 4y ago
      Which, I hope you would admit, has basically nothing to do with this “headline.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Respectfully, not everything that involves Tesla can be reduced to love or hate for Elon Musk. In fact, my original post isn't even about Tesla - just laws about worker's rights.

> There appears to be no other punishment: Tesla has to promise to not break the law in future. Jesus. Can someone explain how worker’s rights laws became so toothless?

DoctorNick 4y ago

When the bourgeoisie is in the drivers seat of your government, their interests come first.

morkalork 4y ago
Turns out buckets of money speak the loudest. It's wildly disenfranchising when things like the wife of a supreme court justice getting paid $10M by law firms who have cases in front of the court don't go severely punished.
Grazester 4y ago
With so much money being pedaled to politician via lobbyist etc, it's impossible not to have a "bourgeoisie" in there.

tyingq 4y ago

Maybe opens a door for a civil suit for the worker that was fired? Having a document in hand where the NLRB is saying some of the events associated with your firing were illegal probably helps.

atkailash 4y ago

[dead]

throwaway5959 4y ago

[flagged]

misssocrates 4y ago
[flagged]
- rightbyte 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - daveguy 4y ago
    [flagged]
- enraged_camel 4y ago
  People always bring up San Francisco in these arguments as some sort of "gotcha", even though they know full well that it is an extreme outlier for many reasons.
  - misssocrates 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Zetobal 4y ago
      [flagged]
- radhad 4y ago
  [dead]
prottog 4y ago
"People that disagree with my beliefs must be doing it out of bad faith", an argument that never dies.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - prottog 4y ago
    I was referring to GP's claim that they "hate government". Believing that the federal government has evolved beyond what the Constitution legally permits and working to make it smaller isn't the same thing as hatefully burning it all down, which was the implication I took out of their comment.
    - Arainach 4y ago
      Conveniently, Republicans aren't "working to make it smaller" and are "hatefully burning it all down" as seen in their constant debt limit antics, their lack of any cohesive platform, Grover Norquist's comments about drowning the government in a bathtub, their abuse of the filibuster to block anything at all from passing rather than working on compromise, and many more examples.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      Hate is maybe too emotional a word but your entire comment is just another way of saying “they don’t like and wish to dismantle some parts of government,” which is not substantially different in practice. The thrust of GP’s claim is: you elect people who wish to dismantle government and you get a dysfunctional government.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    When did republicans succeed in doing any of those things? The filibuster prevents any of these things from being more than rhetoric.
    - 4y ago
tshaddox 4y ago
Since both parties have a track record of increasing the size and scope of government in most measurable ways I can think of, I’m not even sure which half you’re talking about!
- radhad 4y ago
  [dead]
kwere 4y ago
if the government was just a little more powerful, every problem will be solved One more lane argument level

Natsu 4y ago

This conflict appears to be a single manager who told people not to complain about new people being hired at higher rates or to discuss wages, in conflict with Tesla's own policies on the matter. I would probably expect them just to fire that manager and move on, though it's possible a few individual employees would have some sort of claim.

abeppu 4y ago
> The same supervisor also told employees in the meeting not to complain "about pay or any other issues" to anyone higher than the regional manager. The "or any other issues" is extremely broad, and seems reckless. When an employee then tried to _internally_ escalate a concern, that employee was suspended and fired. A minimal slap on the wrist means that Tesla is likely to continue to suppress discussions of wages or workplace conditions, which sucks for workers -- but if the message coming out of this is that escalating _any_ concern above local management is likely to get you fired, I wonder what other kinds of issues will go unaddressed? Workplace safety issues? _Product_ safety issues? Would some of the quality control issues that were in the press some time ago have been more quickly addressed if internal communication didn't put people at risk of being fired? An organization in which people cannot honestly escalate concerns _internally_ is dysfunctional, and has the potential to create harms for customers and shareholders in addition to employees.
- Natsu 4y ago
  Oh, it's definitely harmful to have a manager saying things like that. Fortunately, this story seems to be about precisely one person. I'd be surprised if they didn't give this guy the boot.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    One manager, and their supervisor. Either the supervisor was negligent in doing their job, or supported the manager. HR should probably be more on the ball too. And implemented policies/procedures. There's never just one person who messes up. Kinda like how it's never just the Junior Dev's fault when they delete the production database.

kiltedpanda 4y ago

...and they had to put up posters outlining worker rights. Almost 100% of the comments in this thread seem to gloss over the fact that this lawsuit was due to the actions of one manager in an autobody store. And his actions were counter to Tesla's official policy which clearly states that it is acceptable to discuss salary. Based on the comments alone you'd think the article was about a class action suit. Why extrapolate the actions of one person to those of the entire organization? Go look at the job board on the Tesla website. Their salaries and benefits look great to me.

slily 4y ago
To Musk haters, any bit of news concerning Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter, etc. is just waiting to be spun into a negative headline that can then be an excuse to whine about him. Somehow the smear campaign against him seems to be more effective than most in shaping opinion in the tech sphere. I've noticed coworkers whom I thought were reasonable rational people turn into playground-bully types since the Twitter acquisition, bringing him up in work-related chatrooms just to insult him, sharing hit pieces, memes and tweets with the same intent, etc. Others seem afraid of getting cancelled for praising anything he does, and preface any positive or neutral statement about him with "I think he's a <some negative trait>, but...".
- Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
  I'm not a musk hater because of this sort of thing, I'm a musk hater because of Elon's own words and actions which consistently show him to be a shit person.
  - millerm 4y ago
    Which, I hope you would admit, has basically nothing to do with this “headline.
- falcolas 4y ago
  Respectfully, not everything that involves Tesla can be reduced to love or hate for Elon Musk. In fact, my original post isn't even about Tesla - just laws about worker's rights.