5 ms·

Because we all know international corporations never violate human rights?

refurb 3y ago
That's kind of a ridiculous argument. Sure, international corporations violate human rights, but unless you provide proof these lithium corporations are, then we can just assume they aren't.
- anamexis 3y ago
  Why would that be a reasonable assumption?
  - defrost 3y ago
    Largest companies digging in the dirt creating the vast bulk of the world's lithium concentrates (prior to refining in Chima | Malaysia) are in Chile and Australia and all are listed on the Canadian Toronto TSX exchange. Minerals and Resources rules for exchange listing are pretty tight with respect filing third party independant reports that assess mineral volumes and estimates, economic feasibility, environmental impact, and human rights etc. While it's possible that some things are covered up in these relatively modern capital projects (eg: like conditions mining copper in PNG in days of yore leaving substantial impacts today) it's unlikely due to modern communications and the known fact that everything gets out and doesn't remain hidden - more so today than back when PNG was literally and figuratively obscured by clouds. Austrlia is keeping clean, and you can knock yourself out looking into https://lithiumchile.ca/ https://lithiumchile.ca/ and report anything you find to the TSX.
    - sdm 3y ago
      > all are listed on the Canadian Toronto TSX exchange Given the history of Canadian mining companies, I wouldn't trust any Canadian mining company listed on the TSX to give to shits about human rights.
      - defrost 3y ago
        Not unless significant blocks of their shareholders do . . . Giving a shit about the environment, child exploitation, etc. by larger investment funds has increased in recent decades , there's been a rise in "ethical investment". Ergo TSX companies care more when third party reports about bad practices are filed at the exchange.
  - refurb 3y ago
    Wait, you're asking why it's reasonable to assume a corporation is NOT violating human rights in a situation where there is no evidence that they are? Because it's absurd to think otherwise? I mean, using OPs logic of "Because we all know international corporations never violate human rights?" you could say that about anything. If you're a teacher you're probably a child molester because "Because we all know teachers never molest children, right?"
    - uoaei 3y ago
      It's absurd to believe either side of that dichotomy, because you have no information on which to base any belief.
      - refurb 3y ago
        Thankfully the laws says innocent until proven guilty. Apparently the law is “absurd”
        uoaei 3y ago
        The legal system doesn't "believe" anything. Unless you are a court of law, you aren't bound by the rules governing one.
        refurb 3y ago
        The legal system "presumes" things. Based on your comment, the legal presumptions of innocence is "absurd".
        uoaei 3y ago
        I recommend you study up on the notion of "proceduralism". Codified systems are mutually exclusive with any amount of "agency". Agency is required for beliefs to exist. Ipso facto blah blah blah you're just gonna keep believing some self-serving bullshit so whatever.
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    Hitchen's Razor?
    - anamexis 3y ago
      There's no specific claim being made here. It's just that assuming a lithium mining company (which, as an industry, has a terrible human rights record) would not commit human rights violation because it is a multinational company is a strange assumption to make.
      - throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
        Not only strange but also illogical. Corporations make more profit when they act illegally. From lobbied protectionism to monopoly, exploitation of natural resources to pollution, hiring of ex government officials to bribery and gift giving and favors, and of course from hiring underpaid and abused workers in countries without labor protection, to knowingly using slave labor, and more, they have billions of reasons to break laws and violate human rights. And every time they do it, they pay a small fine that is dwarfed by their profits and nobody goes to jail. You don't even have to look overseas. PG&E has caused hundreds of billions of dollars in damage due to wildfires caused by cost cutting; they don't want to do the maintenance they're legally required to do. Entire communities are left homeless and people are killed. And the company gets a tiny fine and the executives get bonuses. It's actually amazing to me that corporations don't do it more often. It pays to be a piece of shit company.
bluGill 3y ago
Generally not the big ones. They are big enough to have a local branch office that can fined if caught. Small and medium sized companies are much harder to fine as they just don't operate in your country. When the big ones do they are very careful about it, so they can claim to be in a grey area. Tire companies know there is child labor, but they are buying from the parents, and they make sure outside of harvest those kids get a great education (when the kids grow up their either leave, or work the plantation as medical or management staff and not labor). You can still say they are in the wrong, but they have made a place where you can understand the grey

That's kind of a ridiculous argument. Sure, international corporations violate human rights, but unless you provide proof these lithium corporations are, then we can just assume they aren't.

anamexis 3y ago
Why would that be a reasonable assumption?
- defrost 3y ago
  Largest companies digging in the dirt creating the vast bulk of the world's lithium concentrates (prior to refining in Chima | Malaysia) are in Chile and Australia and all are listed on the Canadian Toronto TSX exchange. Minerals and Resources rules for exchange listing are pretty tight with respect filing third party independant reports that assess mineral volumes and estimates, economic feasibility, environmental impact, and human rights etc. While it's possible that some things are covered up in these relatively modern capital projects (eg: like conditions mining copper in PNG in days of yore leaving substantial impacts today) it's unlikely due to modern communications and the known fact that everything gets out and doesn't remain hidden - more so today than back when PNG was literally and figuratively obscured by clouds. Austrlia is keeping clean, and you can knock yourself out looking into https://lithiumchile.ca/ https://lithiumchile.ca/ and report anything you find to the TSX.
  - sdm 3y ago
    > all are listed on the Canadian Toronto TSX exchange Given the history of Canadian mining companies, I wouldn't trust any Canadian mining company listed on the TSX to give to shits about human rights.
    - defrost 3y ago
      Not unless significant blocks of their shareholders do . . . Giving a shit about the environment, child exploitation, etc. by larger investment funds has increased in recent decades , there's been a rise in "ethical investment". Ergo TSX companies care more when third party reports about bad practices are filed at the exchange.
- refurb 3y ago
  Wait, you're asking why it's reasonable to assume a corporation is NOT violating human rights in a situation where there is no evidence that they are? Because it's absurd to think otherwise? I mean, using OPs logic of "Because we all know international corporations never violate human rights?" you could say that about anything. If you're a teacher you're probably a child molester because "Because we all know teachers never molest children, right?"
  - uoaei 3y ago
    It's absurd to believe either side of that dichotomy, because you have no information on which to base any belief.
    - refurb 3y ago
      Thankfully the laws says innocent until proven guilty. Apparently the law is “absurd”
      - uoaei 3y ago
        The legal system doesn't "believe" anything. Unless you are a court of law, you aren't bound by the rules governing one.
        refurb 3y ago
        The legal system "presumes" things. Based on your comment, the legal presumptions of innocence is "absurd".
        uoaei 3y ago
        I recommend you study up on the notion of "proceduralism". Codified systems are mutually exclusive with any amount of "agency". Agency is required for beliefs to exist. Ipso facto blah blah blah you're just gonna keep believing some self-serving bullshit so whatever.
- pfdietz 3y ago
  Hitchen's Razor?
  - anamexis 3y ago
    There's no specific claim being made here. It's just that assuming a lithium mining company (which, as an industry, has a terrible human rights record) would not commit human rights violation because it is a multinational company is a strange assumption to make.
    - throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
      Not only strange but also illogical. Corporations make more profit when they act illegally. From lobbied protectionism to monopoly, exploitation of natural resources to pollution, hiring of ex government officials to bribery and gift giving and favors, and of course from hiring underpaid and abused workers in countries without labor protection, to knowingly using slave labor, and more, they have billions of reasons to break laws and violate human rights. And every time they do it, they pay a small fine that is dwarfed by their profits and nobody goes to jail. You don't even have to look overseas. PG&E has caused hundreds of billions of dollars in damage due to wildfires caused by cost cutting; they don't want to do the maintenance they're legally required to do. Entire communities are left homeless and people are killed. And the company gets a tiny fine and the executives get bonuses. It's actually amazing to me that corporations don't do it more often. It pays to be a piece of shit company.

bluGill 3y ago

Generally not the big ones. They are big enough to have a local branch office that can fined if caught. Small and medium sized companies are much harder to fine as they just don't operate in your country. When the big ones do they are very careful about it, so they can claim to be in a grey area. Tire companies know there is child labor, but they are buying from the parents, and they make sure outside of harvest those kids get a great education (when the kids grow up their either leave, or work the plantation as medical or management staff and not labor). You can still say they are in the wrong, but they have made a place where you can understand the grey