3 ms·

If there is an "intergalactic alliance of sentient beings" then leaving trace and debris will be far from humanity's main issue for joining them. We're not very

by nolok 3y ago

If there is an "intergalactic alliance of sentient beings" then leaving trace and debris will be far from humanity's main issue for joining them. We're not very good at playing with others, never have been from our very nature and the way we evolved. The question being, is that a necessary trait for every species that can reach the stars, in which case do we really want to meet the others just like us, or is it not and it's just us being like that, in which case again do we really want to meet the others who will see us for what we are and hope they don't take the obvious reaction/solution to discovering an invasive parasite ?

stareatgoats 3y ago
I actually prefer to be optimistic about things we don't have a clue about. We can be better. The sentient beings that possibly observe us (without leaving a trace) might also see our potential - we may be selfish and conceited, but we can also adapt and take care. It's not one or the other. When I was a child, that fjord where we used to swim gradually turned into a sewer. Now the water is clean, the fish have returned, because it became illegal to just flush waste into the environment. In Japan, I've heard children clean their own classrooms every day. Not sure if it's true, but it could explain why the supporters of Japans national football team clean the stadium after a match, as a tribute. We can learn.
maxerickson 3y ago
Our knack for cooperation is what got us to space at all.
- nolok 3y ago
  Cooperate ... within our group to beat the other group
- wongarsu 3y ago
  War and competition got us into space. WWII got German rocket scientists the funding and facilities to get some good ideas going, and after the war the US and USSR grabbed whatever German experts they could find and incorperated them into their own ballistic missile programs. Over the course of a decade those programs looked at launching missiles into space instead of hitting dummy targets. The Soviets were the first to successfully launch a satellite and the Americans were upset at the very thought of a communist country being better at something, which brought us a solid decade of space race with lots of spectacular achievements. Followed by the Russians giving up, and little of note happening over the 40 years (ok, rovers got better, the Russians built a bunch of space stations, and the fall of the Soviet Union got us the ISS. Not a whole lot for 40 years though).
  - 7952 3y ago
    War is a team sport. People have a reason to work for a common goal that is bigger than themselves. And that requires a supresion of a lot of competitive spirit. Not everyone can win a medal, be a general, or an astronaut. It takes thousands of normal people doing boring jobs.
wolfram74 3y ago
You've got me thinking, as far as cooperation, nobodies gonna compare to ants, but is there a species of mammal that can work in as large as groups as we can? Some avian flocks and mammal herds get pretty big, but I'm only aware of them cooperating in transit, do they do collaborative child rearing and food sharing like we do?
- nordsieck 3y ago
  > You've got me thinking, as far as cooperation, nobodies gonna compare to ants Depends on which you consider the fundamental organism: the ant or the colony.
- snapplebobapple 3y ago
  That's the exact issue.People that point at humans and say we are bad at cooperation are really saying they are uncomfortable with the level of violence we have/are exhibiting. As far as cooperation goes we are clearly the most cooperative species on the planet as we are cooperating across pretty much the entire surface of the planet across diverse kin groups. Most of the insect examples trotted out (i.e. ants) are colonies made up of one kin group. If you put another kin group in the same territory you won't have two kin groups for long because one will kill the other or push them out of the territory.
  - 7952 3y ago
    Human culture is like nothing else on planet earth for cooperation. Although I think a lot of the cooperative behaviour is still based on kin groups, we just aren't particularly precise about who is kin and who isn't. And those instincts get applied more generally than just our family.
    - snapplebobapple 3y ago
      I suspect it's more that we can build institutions and those institutions can be imbued with rules we think are ideal and power to enforce said rules. That we can apply concepts like "what rules would I want to apply if I didn't know my starting position?" to decide on desirable rules helps a lot too.

by nolok 3y ago

stareatgoats 3y ago

I actually prefer to be optimistic about things we don't have a clue about. We can be better. The sentient beings that possibly observe us (without leaving a trace) might also see our potential - we may be selfish and conceited, but we can also adapt and take care. It's not one or the other. When I was a child, that fjord where we used to swim gradually turned into a sewer. Now the water is clean, the fish have returned, because it became illegal to just flush waste into the environment. In Japan, I've heard children clean their own classrooms every day. Not sure if it's true, but it could explain why the supporters of Japans national football team clean the stadium after a match, as a tribute. We can learn.

maxerickson 3y ago

Our knack for cooperation is what got us to space at all.

nolok 3y ago
Cooperate ... within our group to beat the other group
wongarsu 3y ago
War and competition got us into space. WWII got German rocket scientists the funding and facilities to get some good ideas going, and after the war the US and USSR grabbed whatever German experts they could find and incorperated them into their own ballistic missile programs. Over the course of a decade those programs looked at launching missiles into space instead of hitting dummy targets. The Soviets were the first to successfully launch a satellite and the Americans were upset at the very thought of a communist country being better at something, which brought us a solid decade of space race with lots of spectacular achievements. Followed by the Russians giving up, and little of note happening over the 40 years (ok, rovers got better, the Russians built a bunch of space stations, and the fall of the Soviet Union got us the ISS. Not a whole lot for 40 years though).
- 7952 3y ago
  War is a team sport. People have a reason to work for a common goal that is bigger than themselves. And that requires a supresion of a lot of competitive spirit. Not everyone can win a medal, be a general, or an astronaut. It takes thousands of normal people doing boring jobs.

wolfram74 3y ago

You've got me thinking, as far as cooperation, nobodies gonna compare to ants, but is there a species of mammal that can work in as large as groups as we can? Some avian flocks and mammal herds get pretty big, but I'm only aware of them cooperating in transit, do they do collaborative child rearing and food sharing like we do?

nordsieck 3y ago
> You've got me thinking, as far as cooperation, nobodies gonna compare to ants Depends on which you consider the fundamental organism: the ant or the colony.
snapplebobapple 3y ago
That's the exact issue.People that point at humans and say we are bad at cooperation are really saying they are uncomfortable with the level of violence we have/are exhibiting. As far as cooperation goes we are clearly the most cooperative species on the planet as we are cooperating across pretty much the entire surface of the planet across diverse kin groups. Most of the insect examples trotted out (i.e. ants) are colonies made up of one kin group. If you put another kin group in the same territory you won't have two kin groups for long because one will kill the other or push them out of the territory.
- 7952 3y ago
  Human culture is like nothing else on planet earth for cooperation. Although I think a lot of the cooperative behaviour is still based on kin groups, we just aren't particularly precise about who is kin and who isn't. And those instincts get applied more generally than just our family.
  - snapplebobapple 3y ago
    I suspect it's more that we can build institutions and those institutions can be imbued with rules we think are ideal and power to enforce said rules. That we can apply concepts like "what rules would I want to apply if I didn't know my starting position?" to decide on desirable rules helps a lot too.