5 ms·

So far, I have never before seen an environment group trying to block a mining project referred to as "lobbying". Is the term really that generally used in prac

by triska 3y ago

So far, I have never before seen an environment group trying to block a mining project referred to as "lobbying". Is the term really that generally used in practice?

pedrosorio 3y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying “Lobbying, which usually involves direct, face-to-face contact in cooperation with support staff that may not meet directly face-to-face, is done by many types of people, associations and organized groups, including individuals on a personal level in their capacity as private citizens, it is also practiced by corporations in the private sector serving their own interests, by non-profits and non-governmental organizations in the voluntary sector, by fellow legislators or government officials influencing each other through legislative affairs (legislative assistance) in the public sector, and by advocacy groups (interest groups).”
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  Selectively forgot this part: > is the act of lawfully
  - jerojero 3y ago
    Just because something is lawful doesn't make it good or desirable. I'm sure you can think of many historical examples of lawful actions that are now considered a crime. The opposite is also true. Many laws are a product of the time they were written and in turn, a product of the people who have written them. Why is lobbying legal in the USA? Why is it coded in law? These are genuine questions that people can and should ask.
    - tinus_hn 3y ago
      It’s a very important distinction, if lobbying is not lawful lobbyists are crooks. If it is lawful it’s just a practice that does not agree with your personal preference. The idea that lobbyists are ‘the man’ corruptly influencing bent politicians is tiresome and to paint it as the truth is not productive. If you want to stop lobbying vote for politicians that want to stop it or run for office yourself. However once you are in office you might note why it exists, as did many before you.
      - jerojero 3y ago
        But if the lobbying laws have been passed by the people who were previously unlawfully doing lobbying then what kind of validaty do they have to begin with? I mean to me the big issue is that these are laws that corrupt democracy (in the sense that they benefit the few powerful over the many powerless). And your solution of "just vote them out" is not really feasible because both democrats and Republicans (the only two realistic options you have given the electoral system) are pro lobbying! But is the general population in favour of lobbying? I don't know but I don't think so. I personally advocate for a new way of doing politics altogether. As I don't think the current system really works well to properly channel the will of the majority of the people in responsible ways. And lobbying is much, much stricter in pretty much every other country in the world. So the US is an outlier here.
        tinus_hn 3y ago
        It’s not possible to ‘unlawfully do lobbying’ if by definition lobbying is ‘the act of lawfully …’. You are describing the second option, it’s just a practice that does not agree with your personal preference. You appear to have strong ideas about politics. Arguing on forums gets them nowhere, you can either preach to the choir or try to convince people who will never change their mind. If you want to change things, get involved in the political process yourself.
bratbag 3y ago
Media focuses on the corrupt side of lobbying because it sells rage clicks. The fact is without the non-corrupt side of lobbying, the lawyers whom make up most of the legislature wouldn't have the first clue how their legislation interacts with complex industry specific real world systems.
- fafqg 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - stavros 3y ago
    The only thing worse than your spelling is your opinions on child labor.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - dang 3y ago
      [dead]
      - stavros 3y ago
        It was a joke. The joke was that he misspelled "minors" and wanted kids to work. I thought it might be too obscure, it looks like it is.
        dang 3y ago
        Ok, I see. Sorry!
        stavros 3y ago
        No problem, I was thinking "nobody will get this" as I was writing it, but I figured the payoff would be big for someone who did get it. I didn't realize it might look like an attack, partly because it's such a random thing to say in a thread where kids aren't mentioned and the spelling is correct, but I was wrong.
juujian 3y ago
Reading about the topic of lobbying about every day for work. The more common term to see is "advocacy" but i would not raise an eyebrow if I saw the saw the verb lobby used to describe an environment organization's activities.

by triska 3y ago

So far, I have never before seen an environment group trying to block a mining project referred to as "lobbying". Is the term really that generally used in practice?

pedrosorio 3y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying “Lobbying, which usually involves direct, face-to-face contact in cooperation with support staff that may not meet directly face-to-face, is done by many types of people, associations and organized groups, including individuals on a personal level in their capacity as private citizens, it is also practiced by corporations in the private sector serving their own interests, by non-profits and non-governmental organizations in the voluntary sector, by fellow legislators or government officials influencing each other through legislative affairs (legislative assistance) in the public sector, and by advocacy groups (interest groups).”

tinus_hn 3y ago
Selectively forgot this part: > is the act of lawfully
- jerojero 3y ago
  Just because something is lawful doesn't make it good or desirable. I'm sure you can think of many historical examples of lawful actions that are now considered a crime. The opposite is also true. Many laws are a product of the time they were written and in turn, a product of the people who have written them. Why is lobbying legal in the USA? Why is it coded in law? These are genuine questions that people can and should ask.
  - tinus_hn 3y ago
    It’s a very important distinction, if lobbying is not lawful lobbyists are crooks. If it is lawful it’s just a practice that does not agree with your personal preference. The idea that lobbyists are ‘the man’ corruptly influencing bent politicians is tiresome and to paint it as the truth is not productive. If you want to stop lobbying vote for politicians that want to stop it or run for office yourself. However once you are in office you might note why it exists, as did many before you.
    - jerojero 3y ago
      But if the lobbying laws have been passed by the people who were previously unlawfully doing lobbying then what kind of validaty do they have to begin with? I mean to me the big issue is that these are laws that corrupt democracy (in the sense that they benefit the few powerful over the many powerless). And your solution of "just vote them out" is not really feasible because both democrats and Republicans (the only two realistic options you have given the electoral system) are pro lobbying! But is the general population in favour of lobbying? I don't know but I don't think so. I personally advocate for a new way of doing politics altogether. As I don't think the current system really works well to properly channel the will of the majority of the people in responsible ways. And lobbying is much, much stricter in pretty much every other country in the world. So the US is an outlier here.
      - tinus_hn 3y ago
        It’s not possible to ‘unlawfully do lobbying’ if by definition lobbying is ‘the act of lawfully …’. You are describing the second option, it’s just a practice that does not agree with your personal preference. You appear to have strong ideas about politics. Arguing on forums gets them nowhere, you can either preach to the choir or try to convince people who will never change their mind. If you want to change things, get involved in the political process yourself.

bratbag 3y ago

Media focuses on the corrupt side of lobbying because it sells rage clicks. The fact is without the non-corrupt side of lobbying, the lawyers whom make up most of the legislature wouldn't have the first clue how their legislation interacts with complex industry specific real world systems.

fafqg 3y ago
[flagged]
- stavros 3y ago
  The only thing worse than your spelling is your opinions on child labor.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - dang 3y ago
    [dead]
    - stavros 3y ago
      It was a joke. The joke was that he misspelled "minors" and wanted kids to work. I thought it might be too obscure, it looks like it is.
      - dang 3y ago
        Ok, I see. Sorry!
        stavros 3y ago
        No problem, I was thinking "nobody will get this" as I was writing it, but I figured the payoff would be big for someone who did get it. I didn't realize it might look like an attack, partly because it's such a random thing to say in a thread where kids aren't mentioned and the spelling is correct, but I was wrong.

juujian 3y ago

Reading about the topic of lobbying about every day for work. The more common term to see is "advocacy" but i would not raise an eyebrow if I saw the saw the verb lobby used to describe an environment organization's activities.