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I never really considered it until this article, but I think socially stretch limos are kind of a "poor people thing" now. The article kind of mentions it but o

I never really considered it until this article, but I think socially stretch limos are kind of a "poor people thing" now. The article kind of mentions it but once it became to accessible, it lost its allure. I think a bentley is a better indicator of wealth now if we're talking about cars.

GreedClarifies 4y ago
"indicator of wealth" Maybe. I think it is an indicator of multiple things, one being wealth. Another thing that comes to mind is of someone that needs to signal, badly, that they have wealth. Some people may be interested in those signals, but I hope/guess not too many. PS: I'm all for people having wealth and spending it on things that make their lives better, but conspicuous consumption/Veblen goods/positional goods seem like some kind of ancient software in humans that hopefully will pass in time.
- xeromal 4y ago
  I'm with you on your PS but I don't think it will pass. I feel like humans are inherently comparative beings. We weigh and measure all humans we come in contact with and most are weighed by looks for a first impression. Some people are always going to measure by perceived wealth.
  - gnarbarian 4y ago
    you're 100% right. people will readily jockey, compete, and gloat over the most artificial relative measures of heirarchy. think parking spots or badges in a video game.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  There is conspicuous consumption, but it is not in the form of cars. Who cares if a car is a limo or a Bentley? The comfort and quality and safety is relatively all the same, whether it is a $50k car or a $500k car. You are going to sit in it looking at your phone all the same. But the higher bar to achieve is real estate, time, and professional network. Where you live, where and how you spend your time, and who you work with are all easy ways to determine socioeconomic status, so there is no reason to waste money on cars/jewelry/etc if you get no extra utility from them.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    From the references articles, the limos were significantly less safe than other cars because they often didn't have seat belts, and lacked the protection from the frame of a smaller car.
    - Bluestrike2 4y ago
      If you've ever watched a video[0] on how stretch limos are made (hint: it's even sketchier-looking than you'd expect), you'll get over the idea of riding in one pretty damned fast. Just thinking about a side-impact in one is nuts. The lack of seat belts is just the starting point. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ani9dWmdW_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ani9dWmdW_w
  - zamnos 4y ago
    (As of Jan 2023) Warren Buffett famously drives a 2014 Cadillac XTS and owns only one car. Famously, because most other billionaires have much flashier cars, and warehouses full of cars. You may not feel the difference between a $50k car and a single $500k car, but having seven $500k cars, one for each day of the week, in different colors, just hits different. It's conspicuous consumption, even if you don't notice or care about the particular object of the consumption. There are people out there with just so much money that you can waste money on every half a whim, and still have... pretty much the same amount left over. It means you can buy jewelry you might want and just throw it away like you're in Brewster's Millions. At that level, who cares about utility?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      > It means you can buy jewelry you might want and just throw it away like you're in Brewster's Millions. At that level, who cares about utility? If you want it, you are predicting it will give you utility. Even if it is just a few chemical reactions in your brain, and not an ROI measurable in currency.
    - 4y ago
nimbius 4y ago
wealth and class are two separate things. You can very much be lower class wealthy (Donald Trump) and upper class poor (every post-doctoral barista.) the need to signal wealth, affluence, and success however is very much a middle class eccentricity as cited by Paul Fussel. Middle class people put stickers on their car to indicate their college, drive luxury vehicles that stretch them to the brink of their finances and insist on an almost suffocating degree of verbiage in their conversations. best summed up as $15 word people with $5 ideas they picked up on cable TV. They read, but they cant read positionally to determine a counterargument to a narrative theme. They rent limousines, they buy luxury goods and they conspicuously follow trends in fashion and thought (magnetic bumper stickers for the troops or plastic fitness bracelets.) the baby-on-board sticker is in prominent display because you need to know their importance. the upper class do not. Instead the only conscious acquisitions they make align to their personal preferences, which are largely sacrosanct. Marketing may inform their choices, but appeals to gender and attempts to undermine their confidence will generally fail. They went to college, but its none of your concern. They dont get to the airport in a bentley or a rolls if they are wealthy, because they do not drive. They drive slowly because the well planned day revolves around them, not the other way round. They are quick to apologise, listen intently, and speak directly. what you see is largely what you get. the lower class are largely the same as the upper class. they never went to college, but they dont care if you know. goods and services are purchased utilitarian or without consideration and the substance is largely overt or appeals to a simple motif (live/laugh/love, bless this mess, animatronic wall bass.) They know exactly what they like.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  I would disagree that the upper class are not swayed by identity markers like gender. There is plenty of sway happening in the upper class, specifically on assessing peers and concerning class pooling (especially among the upper class nonwhite in a majority white country). There’s also plenty of appearances for gender markers— fatness is low class.
  - temp2022account 4y ago
    > There is plenty of sway happening in the upper class I mean my anecdata says it _looks_like_ there is plenty of sway - the end goal of course is as always distraction from useful information that can be used for planning

GreedClarifies 4y ago

"indicator of wealth" Maybe. I think it is an indicator of multiple things, one being wealth. Another thing that comes to mind is of someone that needs to signal, badly, that they have wealth. Some people may be interested in those signals, but I hope/guess not too many. PS: I'm all for people having wealth and spending it on things that make their lives better, but conspicuous consumption/Veblen goods/positional goods seem like some kind of ancient software in humans that hopefully will pass in time.

xeromal 4y ago
I'm with you on your PS but I don't think it will pass. I feel like humans are inherently comparative beings. We weigh and measure all humans we come in contact with and most are weighed by looks for a first impression. Some people are always going to measure by perceived wealth.
- gnarbarian 4y ago
  you're 100% right. people will readily jockey, compete, and gloat over the most artificial relative measures of heirarchy. think parking spots or badges in a video game.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
There is conspicuous consumption, but it is not in the form of cars. Who cares if a car is a limo or a Bentley? The comfort and quality and safety is relatively all the same, whether it is a $50k car or a $500k car. You are going to sit in it looking at your phone all the same. But the higher bar to achieve is real estate, time, and professional network. Where you live, where and how you spend your time, and who you work with are all easy ways to determine socioeconomic status, so there is no reason to waste money on cars/jewelry/etc if you get no extra utility from them.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  From the references articles, the limos were significantly less safe than other cars because they often didn't have seat belts, and lacked the protection from the frame of a smaller car.
  - Bluestrike2 4y ago
    If you've ever watched a video[0] on how stretch limos are made (hint: it's even sketchier-looking than you'd expect), you'll get over the idea of riding in one pretty damned fast. Just thinking about a side-impact in one is nuts. The lack of seat belts is just the starting point. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ani9dWmdW_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ani9dWmdW_w
- zamnos 4y ago
  (As of Jan 2023) Warren Buffett famously drives a 2014 Cadillac XTS and owns only one car. Famously, because most other billionaires have much flashier cars, and warehouses full of cars. You may not feel the difference between a $50k car and a single $500k car, but having seven $500k cars, one for each day of the week, in different colors, just hits different. It's conspicuous consumption, even if you don't notice or care about the particular object of the consumption. There are people out there with just so much money that you can waste money on every half a whim, and still have... pretty much the same amount left over. It means you can buy jewelry you might want and just throw it away like you're in Brewster's Millions. At that level, who cares about utility?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > It means you can buy jewelry you might want and just throw it away like you're in Brewster's Millions. At that level, who cares about utility? If you want it, you are predicting it will give you utility. Even if it is just a few chemical reactions in your brain, and not an ROI measurable in currency.
  - 4y ago

nimbius 4y ago

wealth and class are two separate things. You can very much be lower class wealthy (Donald Trump) and upper class poor (every post-doctoral barista.) the need to signal wealth, affluence, and success however is very much a middle class eccentricity as cited by Paul Fussel. Middle class people put stickers on their car to indicate their college, drive luxury vehicles that stretch them to the brink of their finances and insist on an almost suffocating degree of verbiage in their conversations. best summed up as $15 word people with $5 ideas they picked up on cable TV. They read, but they cant read positionally to determine a counterargument to a narrative theme. They rent limousines, they buy luxury goods and they conspicuously follow trends in fashion and thought (magnetic bumper stickers for the troops or plastic fitness bracelets.) the baby-on-board sticker is in prominent display because you need to know their importance. the upper class do not. Instead the only conscious acquisitions they make align to their personal preferences, which are largely sacrosanct. Marketing may inform their choices, but appeals to gender and attempts to undermine their confidence will generally fail. They went to college, but its none of your concern. They dont get to the airport in a bentley or a rolls if they are wealthy, because they do not drive. They drive slowly because the well planned day revolves around them, not the other way round. They are quick to apologise, listen intently, and speak directly. what you see is largely what you get. the lower class are largely the same as the upper class. they never went to college, but they dont care if you know. goods and services are purchased utilitarian or without consideration and the substance is largely overt or appeals to a simple motif (live/laugh/love, bless this mess, animatronic wall bass.) They know exactly what they like.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
I would disagree that the upper class are not swayed by identity markers like gender. There is plenty of sway happening in the upper class, specifically on assessing peers and concerning class pooling (especially among the upper class nonwhite in a majority white country). There’s also plenty of appearances for gender markers— fatness is low class.
- temp2022account 4y ago
  > There is plenty of sway happening in the upper class I mean my anecdata says it _looks_like_ there is plenty of sway - the end goal of course is as always distraction from useful information that can be used for planning