8 ms·

Restaurant real estate gets a radical makeover

17 points by lxm 4y ago

Simulacra 4y ago
https://archive.is/cWxiD https://archive.is/cWxiD
wussboy 4y ago
I'm sorry. What's the lesson here? "People ate out in restaurants less during and immediately after a global pandemic"? "It got darker after the sun set, and will therefore never be light again."
- ghaff 4y ago
  In general, it seems reasonable to ask whether there are long-term patterns of change. And the article makes the case that overall sales were still down in Q4 last year in addition to the percentage of takeout still being higher than pre-pandemic. I'm a bit surprised to be honest. Restaurants seem as busy as ever but I admittedly don't eat out a lot unless I'm traveling and obviously don't personally have hard data other than what's in articles like this. There seems to be a pretty consistent pattern that the "new normal" is mostly not radically different from the "old normal" but there are definitely some shifts at the margins.
  - CrazyStat 4y ago
    > in addition to the percentage of takeout still being higher than pre-pandemic. There's an interesting game theory problem here. At least in my area, higher-end restaurants didn't offer takeout pre-pandemic. If you wanted to eat their food you had to go sit at their table. But having started offering takeout during the pandemic, it's hard for any one restaurant to stop offering takeout and risk losing business to competitors that continue to offer takeout.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      I must say that I don't really understand takeout for higher-end restaurants for the most part. The food is probably on its way to getting cold by the time you get it home and the recipes weren't really designed with takeout in mind. But I generally don't mind cooking; I understand that's not true of a lot of people.
      - akiselev 4y ago
        For that reason most of the high end restaurants in my area have separate menus for take out. Usually it's just their regular menu limited to the dishes that travel best, but often times they'll have dishes that are exclusively for their takeout menu (you can still ask for them when dining in)
      - CrazyStat 4y ago
        We have three young kids, so getting a babysitter and going out to a nice restaurant requires advance planning and adds a fair bit to the cost. With takeout we can enjoy an almost-as-nice meal with much less trouble. I also generally don't mind cooking, but it's a lot harder to prepare a nice meal while also taking care of kids.
  - Larrikin 4y ago
    In the US, tipping culture needs to die instead of the current increase to try and make up for down sales. Any time I can, I do take out so I don't have any expectation to tip for somebody bringing my food to the table.
Bradlinc 4y ago
I own two restaurants and several years ago ate out at upscale restaurants four times a week. One thing the article doesn't touch on is that the labor shortage has decreased the quality of service, which makes it less desirable to eat out. I have gone to several restaurants where the employees are on AirPods (one employee was even listening as they served me.) Many of the best servers and bartenders I know left the profession during the pandemic and have not come back. One may wonder if this due to the lack of pay keeping up with inflation but the team I have makes $35 to $42 an hour, which is up substantially from before the pandemic.
- throwaway22032 4y ago
  I don't think it's about the money. Working during the restrictions was traumatic. At least in the UK, a stressful and busy but ultimately friendly job was converted into playing restriction police. I'm not surprised that a ton of people just decided to sack the job off after that.
  - Zigurd 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Where are masking and vaccination being required outside of healthcare settings in the US or Europe? In fact, I just got back from a European event and the organizers were advised by their lawyer that they couldn't require vaccinations given the current rules in the host country. (That said, I'm sympathetic to people with health issues that mean they feel they can't really participate in reopened society.)
      - Zigurd 4y ago
        [flagged]
    - throwaway22032 4y ago
      Hey man, I hope you're able to feel better about this soon. I'm not a waiter and I don't need any sympathy, just making an observation.
darth_avocado 4y ago
It started with the pandemic but stayed because of inflation. Eating out is becoming expensive. Restaurants need to pay a lot more to attract workers which gets reflected in the food prices. Restaurants who were able to transition to a take out model are able to keep prices lower as compared to a full service restaurants and customers don’t want to pay more. My favorite brunch spot for some eggs and coffee used to cost $50 for 2 even during the pandemic shutdowns (they are fully outdoors). Now, it almost touched $100. But my favorite breakfast burrito place used to cost me $13 for a loaded burrito and it now costs me $15. Guess which one gets more business from me now? To make things work, the tip inflation has made it even worse. More tips for reduced service only encourages more people to order takeout. If I’m ordering at the counter, grabbing my order when it’s ready, eating it at a table and then cleaning up after myself when I’m done, if you ask for a 25-30% tip, I’m going to order takeout and tip 10% if I’m feeling generous.
- ghaff 4y ago
  You're probably right and as a sibling comment noted a lot of restaurants are short-staffed which has to make service worse on average. At the margins, also, people don't just automatically reset to all their previous behaviors. There's probably at least some subset of people who are like (to your example), "You know? Making brunch at home during the pandemic was really not a big deal. Why am I spending all that money to wait for a table at a crowded restaurant again?" ADDED: While there's something to be said for sitting at a table on a nice weekend morning and watching the world walk by in the city, throwing together a brunch at home is probably one of the easier and cheaper meals you can do.
- occamrazor 4y ago
  Do you tip for takeout (without delivery)?
  - darth_avocado 4y ago
    Sometimes. I tip when I do it at the spots I frequent.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago

17 points by lxm 4y ago

https://archive.is/cWxiD https://archive.is/cWxiD

I'm sorry. What's the lesson here? "People ate out in restaurants less during and immediately after a global pandemic"? "It got darker after the sun set, and will therefore never be light again."

ghaff 4y ago
In general, it seems reasonable to ask whether there are long-term patterns of change. And the article makes the case that overall sales were still down in Q4 last year in addition to the percentage of takeout still being higher than pre-pandemic. I'm a bit surprised to be honest. Restaurants seem as busy as ever but I admittedly don't eat out a lot unless I'm traveling and obviously don't personally have hard data other than what's in articles like this. There seems to be a pretty consistent pattern that the "new normal" is mostly not radically different from the "old normal" but there are definitely some shifts at the margins.
- CrazyStat 4y ago
  > in addition to the percentage of takeout still being higher than pre-pandemic. There's an interesting game theory problem here. At least in my area, higher-end restaurants didn't offer takeout pre-pandemic. If you wanted to eat their food you had to go sit at their table. But having started offering takeout during the pandemic, it's hard for any one restaurant to stop offering takeout and risk losing business to competitors that continue to offer takeout.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I must say that I don't really understand takeout for higher-end restaurants for the most part. The food is probably on its way to getting cold by the time you get it home and the recipes weren't really designed with takeout in mind. But I generally don't mind cooking; I understand that's not true of a lot of people.
    - akiselev 4y ago
      For that reason most of the high end restaurants in my area have separate menus for take out. Usually it's just their regular menu limited to the dishes that travel best, but often times they'll have dishes that are exclusively for their takeout menu (you can still ask for them when dining in)
    - CrazyStat 4y ago
      We have three young kids, so getting a babysitter and going out to a nice restaurant requires advance planning and adds a fair bit to the cost. With takeout we can enjoy an almost-as-nice meal with much less trouble. I also generally don't mind cooking, but it's a lot harder to prepare a nice meal while also taking care of kids.
- Larrikin 4y ago
  In the US, tipping culture needs to die instead of the current increase to try and make up for down sales. Any time I can, I do take out so I don't have any expectation to tip for somebody bringing my food to the table.

Bradlinc 4y ago

I own two restaurants and several years ago ate out at upscale restaurants four times a week. One thing the article doesn't touch on is that the labor shortage has decreased the quality of service, which makes it less desirable to eat out. I have gone to several restaurants where the employees are on AirPods (one employee was even listening as they served me.) Many of the best servers and bartenders I know left the profession during the pandemic and have not come back. One may wonder if this due to the lack of pay keeping up with inflation but the team I have makes $35 to $42 an hour, which is up substantially from before the pandemic.

throwaway22032 4y ago
I don't think it's about the money. Working during the restrictions was traumatic. At least in the UK, a stressful and busy but ultimately friendly job was converted into playing restriction police. I'm not surprised that a ton of people just decided to sack the job off after that.
- Zigurd 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Where are masking and vaccination being required outside of healthcare settings in the US or Europe? In fact, I just got back from a European event and the organizers were advised by their lawyer that they couldn't require vaccinations given the current rules in the host country. (That said, I'm sympathetic to people with health issues that mean they feel they can't really participate in reopened society.)
    - Zigurd 4y ago
      [flagged]
  - throwaway22032 4y ago
    Hey man, I hope you're able to feel better about this soon. I'm not a waiter and I don't need any sympathy, just making an observation.

darth_avocado 4y ago

It started with the pandemic but stayed because of inflation. Eating out is becoming expensive. Restaurants need to pay a lot more to attract workers which gets reflected in the food prices. Restaurants who were able to transition to a take out model are able to keep prices lower as compared to a full service restaurants and customers don’t want to pay more. My favorite brunch spot for some eggs and coffee used to cost $50 for 2 even during the pandemic shutdowns (they are fully outdoors). Now, it almost touched $100. But my favorite breakfast burrito place used to cost me $13 for a loaded burrito and it now costs me $15. Guess which one gets more business from me now? To make things work, the tip inflation has made it even worse. More tips for reduced service only encourages more people to order takeout. If I’m ordering at the counter, grabbing my order when it’s ready, eating it at a table and then cleaning up after myself when I’m done, if you ask for a 25-30% tip, I’m going to order takeout and tip 10% if I’m feeling generous.

ghaff 4y ago
You're probably right and as a sibling comment noted a lot of restaurants are short-staffed which has to make service worse on average. At the margins, also, people don't just automatically reset to all their previous behaviors. There's probably at least some subset of people who are like (to your example), "You know? Making brunch at home during the pandemic was really not a big deal. Why am I spending all that money to wait for a table at a crowded restaurant again?" ADDED: While there's something to be said for sitting at a table on a nice weekend morning and watching the world walk by in the city, throwing together a brunch at home is probably one of the easier and cheaper meals you can do.
occamrazor 4y ago
Do you tip for takeout (without delivery)?
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  Sometimes. I tip when I do it at the spots I frequent.
- SoftTalker 4y ago