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I'll wait for the RISC-V version of the SDK. I see no future where Windows for ARM meets ample success. We know there's a Windows for RISC-V in the works, as t
by snvzz 4y ago
I'll wait for the RISC-V version of the SDK. I see no future where Windows for ARM meets ample success.
We know there's a Windows for RISC-V in the works, as the foundation's talks at the Summit referenced it multiple times.
ARM-based, hardware-wise, there's only Qualcomm-based laptops. Qualcomm is very obviously not going to be making SoCs based on ARM CPUs for long.
They have been RISC-V members for a while, they are being sued by ARM, and they've clearly expressed their intent re: RISC-V in their talks at the RISC-V Summit.
As for other SoC vendors, I doubt there is interest. Not now that RISC-V is already taking off.
- nebula8804 4y agoHow about Windows running on M Series Macs? That would probably be one of the best Windows machines on the market. Risc-V while a noble idea will initially lead to some really junk laptops just like the wave of Chinese ARM "laptops" from a few years back and more recently the junk from Qualcomm. Eventually I image the experience will get decent but there will be nothing but disposable junk for a few years until the ecosystem and performance become something consumers can use.
- snvzz 4y agoI don't think Microsoft is interested, and I honestly do not care about ARM hardware anymore. I have never cared about Apple hardware to begin with.
- nebula8804 4y agoI guess the mass market won't care about whatever you end up caring about. You are missing out if you haven't given a serious try of Apple M-Series hardware.
- snvzz 4y agoLet me know once Microsoft supports Windows for ARM on M-Series. Till then, it does not exist for Windows purposes.
- zamnos 4y agoZDNet: Microsoft now supports running Windows 11 on Arm on Apple Silicon Macs, but there are some limitations. https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/microsoft-finally-authorizes-windows-11-on-apple-m1-and-m2-macs/ https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/microsoft-finally-a... or an article from Microsoft themselves: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-for-using-windows-11-with-mac-computers-with-apple-m1-and-m2-chips-cd15fd62-9b34-4b78-b0bc-121baa3c568c https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-for-usin... Feel free to move the goalposts to "non-virtualized, even though you didn't specify that originally :)
- snvzz 4y agoI got loopholed :(
- nebula8804 4y agoWindows 11 virtualized on M Series is probably one of the snappiest Windows 11 experiences you'll probably get. I run it from time to time on my M1 Mac Mini and it is tolerable for when I need to use Windows.
- pjmlp 4y agoIf Windows on ARM is already an hard sell after a decade of trying, RISC-V is an impossible dream.
- snvzz 4y agoRISC-V is taking over the world at quite the pace. I doubt it won't be bigger than ARM ever was or ever will be; within just 3 years from now I expect it to be taking on x86.
- pjmlp 4y agoWishful thinking, it hardly matters beyond some embedded workloads.
- justinclift 4y agoIt does appear to be at least trying to go up the value chain, and - perhaps weirdly - it also seems to be getting a look-in with supercomputers. For the "up the value chain" bit, things like the very-early-stage PineTab-V: https://www.pine64.org/2023/04/01/march-update-tablet-bonanza/ https://www.pine64.org/2023/04/01/march-update-tablet-bonanz... Plus the Tenstorrent (Canadian based) server oriented stuff: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tenstorrent-shares-roadmap-of-ultra-high-performance-risc-v-cpus-and-ai-accelerators https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tenstorrent-shares-roadmap... For the supercomputer bit: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-to-explore-risc-v-isa-for-zettascale-supercomputers https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-to-explore-risc-v-is... and: https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/06/09/strong-showing-for-first-experimental-risc-v-supercomputer/ https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/06/09/strong-showing-for-f... Whether any of that will get traction is clearly a "who knows" thing, but the signs seem to be pointing in the positive direction.
- snvzz 4y agoThe timeline is what it is. Specs such as V, H or the Zb* needed for server/workstation workloads were ratified in late 2021. Assuming hardware was developed alongside the specs, which didn't change much near the time of ratification, then 2-3 years need to be added for actual products. We are about to see the first wave. We know Tenstorrent (CEO: Jim Keller) has a design they expect to release in 2024 with performance competitive with projected Zen5 (also 2024), but using less power. That's Ascalon, a design led by the same person who was M1's chief architect at Apple. We also know SiFive, MIPS, Rivos, Ventana are each working on their own very high performance designs, and have teams full of extremely capable people who have a history of success in high performance chips. That's a lot, and that's just what we know of. There's necessarily more efforts beyond the surface, which we don't yet know about. Ventana's Veyron might be the first to market, with server chips expected 2023H2.
- Cheeeetah 4y ago> ARM-based, hardware-wise, there's only Qualcomm-based laptops. There are also ARM-based servers.
- snvzz 4y agoNot very important in the context of Windows ARM laptops/workstations. Interestingly, none use microarchitectures from ARM themselves, but are instead the work of ISA licensees.