5 ms·

Uhhh... woe is you? Plenty of non-poor people live with gas stoves, often without fume hoods, and even prefer gas. Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized b

Uhhh... woe is you? Plenty of non-poor people live with gas stoves, often without fume hoods, and even prefer gas. Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas.

crooked-v 4y ago
I have a nominally expensive home with a gas stove with one of those terrible recirculating hoods, and at absolute best I feel a kind of lingering regret and annoyance about it. It pumps out so much waste heat that I'd be opening the windows while cooking even if I wasn't also mildly concerned about the whole combustion thing.
JakeAl 4y ago
Love my gas stove, won't live without one, and it keeps my home warm in the winter even when the power goes out. Gas is much more cost effective than electric as well. Also lobe my gas water heater for the same reason. Hot baths during blackouts. This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of storing it.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  > This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of storing it. Probably depends where you are, as this is very much not the case for everyone.
  - oblio 4y ago
    And even if it were true, trends matter. It's not the case now and for sure it's going to be less the case 5, 10 years from now. We can't build new stuff which is practically obsolete on day 1 and a burden just 10 years from now.
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  Do your gas appliances actually work when the power is out? I guess you could light the stove with a match but aren’t most boilers going to be electrically controlled such that they won’t work without power. It also seems like a bit of a weird reason to me as a big reason. But maybe you get a lot more power outages than I do. (I would imagine somewhere with a gas main, where gas heating can be economical, would not have very frequent or problematic blackouts. With no gas main, you use butane/propane which is not so economical). Plenty of people have camping stoves lying around which can be used in a pinch.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    It all depends on the devices and how they're setup. If you're in an area that gets really cold AND has intermittent power (which is not uncommon, snow and ice on the lines can take down power) you can either design your setup to work without external power (think: emergency generator, etc) or you can design parts of it to be usable in an emergency (think: stove you can light with a match, fireplace; kerosene heaters, etc). My gas furnace will not ignite without power and the power necessary to run the blower is 15 amps or so, wiring in a portable generator would be simple. The water heater works without any power whatsoever. The stove has electric ignition but you can light it without power. The oven needs power (I think? never tried it).
  - vel0city 4y ago
    Gas water heaters usually have a thermopile for their controls. Once the pilot is lit which can be done with one of those ignition clicker buttons (purely mechanical). There's no electric hookup to my water heater, nor have I ever had an electric hookup to any gas water heater. Gas is also often more reliable than electricity as gas is practically always buried while electricity has many overhead lines in the mix.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    My stove does. My water heater does, but the little recirculation pump on it doesn't so it takes longer to get hot water at a distant faucet. My central heat does not.
  - jjav 4y ago
- ben_w 4y ago
  Last time I had any kind of electrical power failure was, IIRC, the end of 2006 while living in the middle of nowhere: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern?
  - ihateyouall123 4y ago
    Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy
    - ben_w 4y ago
      Your electricity is unreliable because most people rent? I don't understand the claimed causal relationship. FWIW, I'm paying rent for my current apartment, we don't have a gas supply, and I've never had a power cut. Indeed, while I am rich and do own an apartment back in the UK, roughly three quarters of the 16.5 years since I've last experienced a power cut was in property I pay rent for, and only about 4 years were in the flat I own and began collecting rent on when I left the country. Which, ah, also doesn't have a gas supply. In any case, not sure what this is suppressed to have to do with reliably of the electricity supply — it's not like landlords get free shares in local power grid companies (or if we do, I missed the memo).
    - jjav 4y ago
      > Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy Sorry but this is nonsense. Your local power utility monopoly is what it is, completely unrelated to whether you rent or own.
  - jjav 4y ago
    > So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern? Might be different in the UK. I have never lived anywhere where blackouts weren't fairly regular. Currently in the backwaters of silicon valley and blackouts are the norm every time it rains, or there's any wind. Or forecast of wind or fear of rain. Thanks PG&E.
- vel0city 4y ago
  > This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity Practically all of the US has some renewable mix, so all the US already away from fossil fuels generating "all" the electricity (renewables + nuclear being 0%). Over 30% of the electricity in my home is from wind and solar alone. You also really shouldn't be using your stove to provide warmth in your home since you're probably not venting out the NOx, CO2, and CO emissions. CO poisoning kills a lot of people doing what you're claiming is a benefit.
simplotek 4y ago
> Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas. Your comment reads like someone swearing smoking has no health impact because they never felt ill or victimized for smoking. Meanwhile, even the World Health Organization produces reports on health risks of household air pollution, where stoves are the primary pollution source. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-air-pollution-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a...
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  That’s a false equivalence. You’ve either misunderstood or deliberately linked an article that doesn’t support your claim about using natural gas cooking. “Around 2.4 billion people worldwide (around a third of the global population) cook using open fires or inefficient stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal, which generates harmful household air pollution.” Open fire/stove cooking is the primary cause of COPD in the developing world, in the developed world its smoking. The WHO is not worried about US homes with gas stoves. This article is not about natural gas stoves. The article is about open fire/stove cooking. I hope others aren’t misled by you. What a shame.
  - evandijk70 4y ago
    The above is correct. Additionally, they even mention natural gas as a viable alternative in the abstract: "It is essential to expand use of clean fuels and technologies to reduce household air pollution and protect health. These include solar, electricity, biogas, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), natural gas, alcohol fuels, as well as biomass stoves that meet the emission targets in the WHO Guidelines."
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - simplotek 4y ago
      > The above is correct. Additionally, they even mention natural gas as a viable alternative in the abstract: It isn't, and you clearly failed to read the paper because you're oblivious to its context. The "alternative" was open-flame coal and wood stoves, as well as querosene stoves, which cause extreme levels of indoor pollution and health hazard and are in widespread use in underdeveloped nations. Natural gas stoves pollute less than open-flame coal and wood stoves, yes, and are therefore a preferable alternative. However, unlike your clueless claim, this does not mean that gas stoves do not lose a health hazard, or that electrical stoves are not far preferable. The WHO report refutes the bullshit claim that gas stoves don't present a health hazard due to the type and levels of indoor air pollution they create.

Uhhh... woe is you? Plenty of non-poor people live with gas stoves, often without fume hoods, and even prefer gas. Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas.

crooked-v 4y ago

I have a nominally expensive home with a gas stove with one of those terrible recirculating hoods, and at absolute best I feel a kind of lingering regret and annoyance about it. It pumps out so much waste heat that I'd be opening the windows while cooking even if I wasn't also mildly concerned about the whole combustion thing.

JakeAl 4y ago

Love my gas stove, won't live without one, and it keeps my home warm in the winter even when the power goes out. Gas is much more cost effective than electric as well. Also lobe my gas water heater for the same reason. Hot baths during blackouts. This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of storing it.

lostlogin 4y ago
> This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity and that doesn't even get to the cost and efficiency of storing it. Probably depends where you are, as this is very much not the case for everyone.
- oblio 4y ago
  And even if it were true, trends matter. It's not the case now and for sure it's going to be less the case 5, 10 years from now. We can't build new stuff which is practically obsolete on day 1 and a burden just 10 years from now.
dan-robertson 4y ago
Do your gas appliances actually work when the power is out? I guess you could light the stove with a match but aren’t most boilers going to be electrically controlled such that they won’t work without power. It also seems like a bit of a weird reason to me as a big reason. But maybe you get a lot more power outages than I do. (I would imagine somewhere with a gas main, where gas heating can be economical, would not have very frequent or problematic blackouts. With no gas main, you use butane/propane which is not so economical). Plenty of people have camping stoves lying around which can be used in a pinch.
- bombcar 4y ago
  It all depends on the devices and how they're setup. If you're in an area that gets really cold AND has intermittent power (which is not uncommon, snow and ice on the lines can take down power) you can either design your setup to work without external power (think: emergency generator, etc) or you can design parts of it to be usable in an emergency (think: stove you can light with a match, fireplace; kerosene heaters, etc). My gas furnace will not ignite without power and the power necessary to run the blower is 15 amps or so, wiring in a portable generator would be simple. The water heater works without any power whatsoever. The stove has electric ignition but you can light it without power. The oven needs power (I think? never tried it).
- vel0city 4y ago
  Gas water heaters usually have a thermopile for their controls. Once the pilot is lit which can be done with one of those ignition clicker buttons (purely mechanical). There's no electric hookup to my water heater, nor have I ever had an electric hookup to any gas water heater. Gas is also often more reliable than electricity as gas is practically always buried while electricity has many overhead lines in the mix.
- mlyle 4y ago
  My stove does. My water heater does, but the little recirculation pump on it doesn't so it takes longer to get hot water at a distant faucet. My central heat does not.
- jjav 4y ago
ben_w 4y ago
Last time I had any kind of electrical power failure was, IIRC, the end of 2006 while living in the middle of nowhere: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA https://maps.app.goo.gl/uhgrnw1W4KFBoiRRA So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern?
- ihateyouall123 4y ago
  Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Your electricity is unreliable because most people rent? I don't understand the claimed causal relationship. FWIW, I'm paying rent for my current apartment, we don't have a gas supply, and I've never had a power cut. Indeed, while I am rich and do own an apartment back in the UK, roughly three quarters of the 16.5 years since I've last experienced a power cut was in property I pay rent for, and only about 4 years were in the flat I own and began collecting rent on when I left the country. Which, ah, also doesn't have a gas supply. In any case, not sure what this is suppressed to have to do with reliably of the electricity supply — it's not like landlords get free shares in local power grid companies (or if we do, I missed the memo).
  - jjav 4y ago
    > Because the majority of people rent and have no control over this in their place Mr. spoiled rich guy Sorry but this is nonsense. Your local power utility monopoly is what it is, completely unrelated to whether you rent or own.
- jjav 4y ago
  > So while I fully believe your lived experiences and preferences, a relevant question is: why are your electricity supplies so unreliable that having gas as well is even an important concern? Might be different in the UK. I have never lived anywhere where blackouts weren't fairly regular. Currently in the backwaters of silicon valley and blackouts are the norm every time it rains, or there's any wind. Or forecast of wind or fear of rain. Thanks PG&E.
vel0city 4y ago
> This whole "gas is bad for the environment" is bunk when fossil fuels are required to generate al that electricity Practically all of the US has some renewable mix, so all the US already away from fossil fuels generating "all" the electricity (renewables + nuclear being 0%). Over 30% of the electricity in my home is from wind and solar alone. You also really shouldn't be using your stove to provide warmth in your home since you're probably not venting out the NOx, CO2, and CO emissions. CO poisoning kills a lot of people doing what you're claiming is a benefit.

simplotek 4y ago

> Not once have I ever felt ill or victimized because I had to cook on gas. Your comment reads like someone swearing smoking has no health impact because they never felt ill or victimized for smoking. Meanwhile, even the World Health Organization produces reports on health risks of household air pollution, where stoves are the primary pollution source. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-air-pollution-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a...

Pigalowda 4y ago
That’s a false equivalence. You’ve either misunderstood or deliberately linked an article that doesn’t support your claim about using natural gas cooking. “Around 2.4 billion people worldwide (around a third of the global population) cook using open fires or inefficient stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal, which generates harmful household air pollution.” Open fire/stove cooking is the primary cause of COPD in the developing world, in the developed world its smoking. The WHO is not worried about US homes with gas stoves. This article is not about natural gas stoves. The article is about open fire/stove cooking. I hope others aren’t misled by you. What a shame.
- evandijk70 4y ago
  The above is correct. Additionally, they even mention natural gas as a viable alternative in the abstract: "It is essential to expand use of clean fuels and technologies to reduce household air pollution and protect health. These include solar, electricity, biogas, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), natural gas, alcohol fuels, as well as biomass stoves that meet the emission targets in the WHO Guidelines."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > The above is correct. Additionally, they even mention natural gas as a viable alternative in the abstract: It isn't, and you clearly failed to read the paper because you're oblivious to its context. The "alternative" was open-flame coal and wood stoves, as well as querosene stoves, which cause extreme levels of indoor pollution and health hazard and are in widespread use in underdeveloped nations. Natural gas stoves pollute less than open-flame coal and wood stoves, yes, and are therefore a preferable alternative. However, unlike your clueless claim, this does not mean that gas stoves do not lose a health hazard, or that electrical stoves are not far preferable. The WHO report refutes the bullshit claim that gas stoves don't present a health hazard due to the type and levels of indoor air pollution they create.