4 ms·

That's absolutely false. I don't even spent €9 most months on public transit in Berlin, but at €9, I'd get it and probably use public transit more often (which

by wheels 3y ago

That's absolutely false. I don't even spent €9 most months on public transit in Berlin, but at €9, I'd get it and probably use public transit more often (which is the point). There's no way I'd buy a €49 ticket. I primarily bike and drive, though I drive so little that I only have to fill up my tank every 2-3 months.

mytailorisrich 3y ago
There's no way you'd use public transport if it cost you 49 euros a month? Hmm I think that means you simply don't really want/need public transport because 49 euros a month for unlimited use is dirt cheap however you look at it. Frankly, I find it very odd the inhabitants of one of the richest countries on Earth argue over 9 vs 49 euros a month... that feels like next level spoiled.
- morelisp 3y ago
  At 50 it's affordable to almost everyone. It's a big improvement, but still incremental. At 10 (or less) it's a safe assumption for everyone. You can start building things with zero provisions for cars, no excuses. It's a massive social shift.
- throw_pm23 3y ago
  I don't know why it is odd. A ticket in Berlin is around 3 euros. If you make around 10 rides in an average month then a 9 or 29 euros pass is worth it, a 49 euros pass is not worth it. Not everyone will change their travel patterns because of a discounted pass, so there is some threshold at which it is worth it.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    I get it you don't need that pass because you already get it cheaper. In fact I think very few people need a national pass and would rather prefer a cheaper local pass. But the general point is that 49 euros a month to use public transport is dirt cheap and is definitely not a barrier, quite the opposite. NB if a ticket is 3 euros it means 60/120 euros a month to commute daily without any discounted pass. Obviously, if you use only now and then the 3 euro ticket will be the cheapest option anyway...
    - dathinab 3y ago
      It is cheaper then the local pass they can get (by 15+€ per month). It's not that the local pass is cheaper for them, it's that they use the transportation network so little that buying single tickets on demand is cheaper. Which makes this whole argument kinda pointless. I think they believe the 49€ ticket is an attempt to try to make driver stop using the car and use the public transport instead. But this isn't exactly the goal here.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    the primary benefit is for commuters, that is 2 rides per workday, 40 rides a month. so effectively 1.23€ per ride. even as someone working from home, i go out at least 3-4 times a week, shopping, other errands, events, meet friends. two rides each time adds up to at least 30 rides a month. 3€ per ride only gets you 16 rides before you reach 49€. any semi regular user of public transport will reach that easily.
  - dathinab 3y ago
    you are speaking about _one directional consecutive rides_ I.e. 10 rides are just 5 trips if you have a ride home from work and take some side route to stop at a shopping mall or Kino or so that counts as an additional trip but someone using it for work daily tends to have more then 42 rides a month not just 10 and that is just for work transit in a 5 work day week and then this is assuming you only travel in the AB area and not the outer area of Berlin and there are many (in summer) nice places close by Berlin, some still in the C area some beyond lastly, it's very convenient, I mean since I don't have a semester ticket anymore I forgot to buy a ticket way to often and just was lucky to never got cought
- wheels 3y ago
  I'm not arguing that it should exist for €9, I'm arguing that there's a major difference in the effects of a €9 ticket vs. a €49 ticket. I'd actually change my behavior for a €9 ticket. I won't for a €49 ticket, because I won't buy it. And the point of this ticket is to get people to change their behavior. I mainly get around by bike. I basically use my car for: bad weather, large shopping trips, outings with kids and going to the area around Berlin. I'd consider doing some of the latter two with a public transit pass if I had one. I actually used to have a monthly ticket -- when I needed it for work. But a lot of people work from home, or bike to work, and for those folks a €49 ticket still really can't be justified. You'd need to make 20 trips a month for it to work out, and if you're not taking public transit to work, that's a larger number than one's likely to need.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    That's what I'm saying, then. You do not need public transport and there no sensible reason to change behaviours such as yours because you cycle.
    - wheels 3y ago
      But this started with, "We need to realise that 9 euros or 49 euros makes no difference." It does, for me, and lots of people like me. It's fine for you to think we don't matter, but your claim that people like us don't exist is false. In fact, in central Berlin people that cycle as a primary means of transportation is extremely common. (I honestly can't think of a single of my friends who uses public transit daily.) €9 vs. €49 makes a difference for people who use public transit as auxiliary transit, not primary transit.
JanSt 3y ago
You should calculate the costs for the car. Insurance+tax alone might be above 49€/month. If you would get rid of it for 9€/month you should also do it for 49€/month. This ticket is basically a big (!) raise for anyone using public transport. My wife will save 150€/month and can travel everywhere instead of a 50km single route
- wheels 3y ago
  Tax isn't much, but insurance, fuel and maintenance are more than €49/month. But I'm not considering getting rid of my car. (I may when my kids are older.)
dathinab 3y ago
> I don't even spent €9 most months on public transit in Berlin which means you don't really use the public transite net at all because a 4-(one direction) trip bundle ticket cost already 10€, and that is AB only, i.e. excluding the outer areas of Berlin or in other words if you use the public transportation so little and drive so little that it also doesn't cost you much you really are not the audience this ticket is meant to help

by wheels 3y ago

mytailorisrich 3y ago

There's no way you'd use public transport if it cost you 49 euros a month? Hmm I think that means you simply don't really want/need public transport because 49 euros a month for unlimited use is dirt cheap however you look at it. Frankly, I find it very odd the inhabitants of one of the richest countries on Earth argue over 9 vs 49 euros a month... that feels like next level spoiled.

morelisp 3y ago
At 50 it's affordable to almost everyone. It's a big improvement, but still incremental. At 10 (or less) it's a safe assumption for everyone. You can start building things with zero provisions for cars, no excuses. It's a massive social shift.
throw_pm23 3y ago
I don't know why it is odd. A ticket in Berlin is around 3 euros. If you make around 10 rides in an average month then a 9 or 29 euros pass is worth it, a 49 euros pass is not worth it. Not everyone will change their travel patterns because of a discounted pass, so there is some threshold at which it is worth it.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  I get it you don't need that pass because you already get it cheaper. In fact I think very few people need a national pass and would rather prefer a cheaper local pass. But the general point is that 49 euros a month to use public transport is dirt cheap and is definitely not a barrier, quite the opposite. NB if a ticket is 3 euros it means 60/120 euros a month to commute daily without any discounted pass. Obviously, if you use only now and then the 3 euro ticket will be the cheapest option anyway...
  - dathinab 3y ago
    It is cheaper then the local pass they can get (by 15+€ per month). It's not that the local pass is cheaper for them, it's that they use the transportation network so little that buying single tickets on demand is cheaper. Which makes this whole argument kinda pointless. I think they believe the 49€ ticket is an attempt to try to make driver stop using the car and use the public transport instead. But this isn't exactly the goal here.
- em-bee 3y ago
  the primary benefit is for commuters, that is 2 rides per workday, 40 rides a month. so effectively 1.23€ per ride. even as someone working from home, i go out at least 3-4 times a week, shopping, other errands, events, meet friends. two rides each time adds up to at least 30 rides a month. 3€ per ride only gets you 16 rides before you reach 49€. any semi regular user of public transport will reach that easily.
- dathinab 3y ago
  you are speaking about _one directional consecutive rides_ I.e. 10 rides are just 5 trips if you have a ride home from work and take some side route to stop at a shopping mall or Kino or so that counts as an additional trip but someone using it for work daily tends to have more then 42 rides a month not just 10 and that is just for work transit in a 5 work day week and then this is assuming you only travel in the AB area and not the outer area of Berlin and there are many (in summer) nice places close by Berlin, some still in the C area some beyond lastly, it's very convenient, I mean since I don't have a semester ticket anymore I forgot to buy a ticket way to often and just was lucky to never got cought
wheels 3y ago
I'm not arguing that it should exist for €9, I'm arguing that there's a major difference in the effects of a €9 ticket vs. a €49 ticket. I'd actually change my behavior for a €9 ticket. I won't for a €49 ticket, because I won't buy it. And the point of this ticket is to get people to change their behavior. I mainly get around by bike. I basically use my car for: bad weather, large shopping trips, outings with kids and going to the area around Berlin. I'd consider doing some of the latter two with a public transit pass if I had one. I actually used to have a monthly ticket -- when I needed it for work. But a lot of people work from home, or bike to work, and for those folks a €49 ticket still really can't be justified. You'd need to make 20 trips a month for it to work out, and if you're not taking public transit to work, that's a larger number than one's likely to need.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  That's what I'm saying, then. You do not need public transport and there no sensible reason to change behaviours such as yours because you cycle.
  - wheels 3y ago
    But this started with, "We need to realise that 9 euros or 49 euros makes no difference." It does, for me, and lots of people like me. It's fine for you to think we don't matter, but your claim that people like us don't exist is false. In fact, in central Berlin people that cycle as a primary means of transportation is extremely common. (I honestly can't think of a single of my friends who uses public transit daily.) €9 vs. €49 makes a difference for people who use public transit as auxiliary transit, not primary transit.

JanSt 3y ago

You should calculate the costs for the car. Insurance+tax alone might be above 49€/month. If you would get rid of it for 9€/month you should also do it for 49€/month. This ticket is basically a big (!) raise for anyone using public transport. My wife will save 150€/month and can travel everywhere instead of a 50km single route

wheels 3y ago
Tax isn't much, but insurance, fuel and maintenance are more than €49/month. But I'm not considering getting rid of my car. (I may when my kids are older.)

dathinab 3y ago

> I don't even spent €9 most months on public transit in Berlin which means you don't really use the public transite net at all because a 4-(one direction) trip bundle ticket cost already 10€, and that is AB only, i.e. excluding the outer areas of Berlin or in other words if you use the public transportation so little and drive so little that it also doesn't cost you much you really are not the audience this ticket is meant to help