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+1 regarding cooking gas being a minuscule amount of gas usage overall. And not to mention, gas is still the first choice for most serious cooks, so the small b
by lumb63 3y ago
+1 regarding cooking gas being a minuscule amount of gas usage overall. And not to mention, gas is still the first choice for most serious cooks, so the small benefit comes at relatively large cost to lifestyle.
Regarding heat pumps phasing out gas heat, in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold. In more temperate climates, sure, but in the northern US and further, there will be a need for on-demand heat for a long time to come. The heat pump is being oversold as the answer to everything, but there are use cases it doesn’t account for.
The path forward to carbon neutrality is electrification. Electrify new construction, use steam to heat them, etc. Something which addresses heat will dwarf any of the benefits from coming after people’s stovetops, at a fraction of the lifestyle cost.
It almost feels like this is something designed to turn heads; a political act focused on banning something quite popular, that everyone knows about, for very marginal benefit. It’s almost certainly not to help with “climate change”; if it were, the legislation would target non-negligible emissions sources.
- jablongo 3y ago> Regarding heat pumps phasing out gas heat, in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold. Not true, heat pumps are widely used as primary heat sources in environments as cold or colder than NY, like in Montreal and other parts of Canada. The take that heat pump tech only works in very moderate temperatures is stale at this point.
- bradlys 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- amalcon 3y agoUsually that works one of two ways: 1. Ground source heat pump -- which can work pretty much anywhere people live, but costs a lot more and people don't necessarily know about them. 2. Failover to resistive heating when it gets too cold outside. It's fine to do this in Montreal, because electricity is relatively inexpensive there. It's fine to do this in New York City, or even somewhere a little cooler like Boston, because you're doing it for max like 2 days a year even in an outlier year. Not sure if it's fine to do this in Buffalo.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago3. an actual modern air-source heat pump, that still has a COP of close to 2.0 at 5F (as listed here: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/ https://ashp.neep.org/#!/
- indymike 3y ago> Not true, heat pumps are widely used as primary heat sources in environments as cold or colder than NY, like in Montreal and other parts of Canada. As the owner of a 5 year old heat pump in a milder climate in Indiana, I can tell you this: * When it is under 10°F, my heat pump switches to emergency heat... forced air electric and is very expensive to run. * Often the temperature swings are pretty wild... 40-50 degrees and that also can force emergency heat. Oh, and since the electric company is usually using gas to generate the electricity, isn't the environmental impact somewhat of a wash?
- SoftTalker 3y agoYep if you live in Indiana your electricity comes from gas or coal, there's a tiny bit of generation from a wind farm in the northwest corner of the state and some scattered token solar farms.
- justeleblanc 3y agoYou bought a shitty heat pump and decided you were okay with living in a state that produces electricity using fossil fuels. What's your point again?
- nullc 3y agoWhat state doesn't produce electricity using fossil fuels? At midnight last night, which wasn't atypical, California was 50% natural gas and the total CO2 emitting is even greater due to imports and CO2 emitting renewables.
- xwdv 3y agoIf you want to be a serious cook work in a commercial kitchen. Induction is a far better choice for residential use.
- bluGill 3y agoI can't afford to eat out every meal, not with 3 kids at home. Unless the meal is $20/person I can do better myself at home, and even many of the expensive ones are disappointing compared to what I can do for a fraction of the cost. Good tools help me cook better.
- xwdv 3y agoHence induction stoves.
- collegeburner 3y agoi just looked on home depot dot com gas ranges: $949, $848, $676. boujee model is $1199 induction ranges: $1198 starting, $4138, $1848, $1598, $2498 plus i can't use my nice copper diffuser with them :( nah, imma stick to gas :)
- bluGill 3y agoIf I look to Europe I see induction stoves competitive in price and features to regular electric stoves. In the us they are only on a few high end stoves and not competitively prices. There are a lot of options you might look for in a stove that you cannot get if you also want induction. By stove I mean the cooktop and oven in one package. That is what my house needs so I haven't looked at the other options.
- lostlogin 3y agoSo many people have seperate hob/oven? This is the more common arrangement where I am and the price difference are much smaller.
- 3y ago
- LazyMans 3y agoIt is not too cold in New York for heat pumps. With 20 year old technology yes, it would have required supplemental heat. Not anymore though, not until you get down around -25/-30f, at that point a resistive heater kicks in to assist.
- lumb63 3y agoPerhaps I worded my comment incorrectly. Yes, heat pumps can work in New York. But, a backup heat system in that climate would be prudent.
- LazyMans 3y agoAuxiliary heat is built into a heat pump due to the need for a defrost cycle. The auxiliary is the backup.
- bitexploder 3y agoWe live in Denver and saw -10, -15 this winter. Our heat pump is 100% efficient down to -10, and still reasonably efficient at -25. Our whole house is on it. No gas.
- timssopomo 3y agoI live in upstate NY - plenty of people rely on heat pumps as a primary source. You need backup systems for natural gas and oil in this climate too, for what it's worth. They won't run when the power goes out.
- catiopatio 3y agoWhat happens, exactly, when everyone’s resistive heater kicks in, the grid is overloaded, and we wind up with rolling blackouts in -30 weather?
- blkhawk 3y ago[flagged]
- TulliusCicero 3y ago> And not to mention, gas is still the first choice for most serious cooks, so the small benefit comes at relatively large cost to lifestyle. Induction is fantastic and even superior to gas in some ways (even faster for boiling water, for example). While some may still prefer gas, given that induction gives instant power and is more powerful, I have a hard time believing that it results in a "large cost to lifestyle". Besides, gas stoves actually cause a significant amount of indoor air pollution, which may be more relevant than the climate change impact. They are quite literally bad for you: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/have-a-gas-stove-how-to-reduce-pollution-that-may-harm-health-202209072811 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/have-a-gas-stove-how-to-... > Children living in households that use gas stoves for cooking are 42% more likely to have asthma
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- gwbas1c 3y ago> Regarding heat pumps phasing out gas heat, in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold I live in MA and heat my whole house with a heat pump. It works fine. I have an electric strip for backup. My house (and heat pump) are five years old. The newer ones are better; Lennox's new model can work in Upstate New York without a backup heat source: https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-announces-breakthrough-residential-cold-climate-heat-pump-technology https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-announces-breakthrough-r... (I will admit that I have a gas stove in my basement to handle power outages, a gas stove, and a gas grill. I will also admit that I really, really regret installing a gas stove and will switch to an induction stove when it's time to replace the stove.)
- catiopatio 3y ago> I really, really regret installing a gas stove Why?
- gwbas1c 3y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35756895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35756895 We HAVE to run the fan when we turn on the stove or oven. That's not the case with electric / induction.
- catiopatio 3y agoOf everything you’re aerosolizing while cooking, the combustion byproducts are almost certainly the least impactful. Given your concerns, I wouldn’t cook using electric/induction without the fan on either.
- rhaway84773 3y agoMost new buildings in NYC are already heat pump based. For the obvious reason that it’s much cheaper. Ban cooking gas as well, and they save a ton of money running gas pipes, and utility companies having to maintain that gas pipe. Also, “serious cooks” can still use their gas stoves. They just need to hook it up to a cylinder like most of the world manages just fine, but apparently the people in the richest country in the world can’t figure out.
- pclmulqdq 3y agoArguably propane may be better for serious cooking, too. Chefs like to cook things a lot hotter than the average person, and LPG burns hotter than natural gas.
- sudosysgen 3y agoI live north of New York, in Canada, and use a heat pump for heating. It works perfectly well.
- emmanuel_1234 3y ago2 weeks ago I met a Chinese chef, the kind that cooks with a wok on those extremely noisy burners. He thinks induction is better than anything.
- theshrike79 3y ago> in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold Scandinavia here. Heat pumps work just fine down to -20C