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This is a new(ish) ticket. We had a 9€ ticket for three month (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-Euro-Ticket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-Euro-Ticket) which wa

by h4kor 3y ago

This is a new(ish) ticket. We had a 9€ ticket for three month (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-Euro-Ticket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-Euro-Ticket) which was a huge monetary relief. Sadly this is not continued, but as a consequence (due to high popularity of the 9 euro ticket) the 49€ ticket is introduced as a compromise. It generally is cheaper than most (virtually all) monthly tickets. Additionally this one is valid for all of Germany instead of just for a state or specific region. "Job Tickets" used to commute to and from work, subsidized by cities and/or companies, often cost ~90 € per month in my experience.

mytailorisrich 3y ago
We need to realise that 9 euros or 49 euros makes no difference. Both are peanuts for the vast majority of people. Ultimately these schemes are based on the belief of the current people in charge to public transport should be free. Hence they pushing to get there. But trying to argue that 9 vs 49 is a huge difference feels rather immature.
- h4kor 3y ago
  9€ or 49€ makes a huge difference. 1. For unemployed people and people in low wage jobs, 40€/month is a lot of money, and many will not be able to afford this ticket. Meaning they have to stick to single tickets, whenever it is unavoidable or use other means of transportation. 2. During the 3 month of the 9€ ticket, we saw a huge increase in travels to surrounding areas of cities. Anecdotally, there are stories of bakeries, cafes, bars at the edge of the city who saw an significant increase in customers because the barrier to visit them was lower to virtually zero. People just visited different parts of their city, or other cities because it was now affordable for them. 3. 9€ is a price where you don't think about buying anything else. The first trip you take, you buy this ticket (even on the last day of the month). This massively simplifies traveling by bus and train. 49€ is something you only spend if you know that there will be multiple trips in the month. This combined with the subscription based model, makes the current ticket far less attractive than the previous 9€ ticket.
  - JanSt 3y ago
    We germans love to criticize even huge improvements, don‘t we? 49€ is dead cheap for that ticket.
    - mytailorisrich 3y ago
      It does feel rather surreal, indeed.
    - morelisp 3y ago
      100€ just for one/two Länder would've been a huge improvement for most people I know. It can be a huge improvement but we can still demand better.
    - h4kor 3y ago
      The discussion for this ticket started with 9€ so it's fair to compare the result to what they set out to achieve. 9€ would have been a revolution of public transportation. A major step to achieve the emission goals of ministry of transportation, which it utterly fails at and can't even come up with a strategy how to achieve any reductions. 49€ is nice for everyone already using public transportation on a regular basis, but will not induce a significant change in transportation method used, which is desperately needed.
  - dathinab 3y ago
    The 2nd point is misleading as a major part of this effect was likely due to the novelty of the 9€ ticket and it being "only available for a short time" and the COVID lockdowns which had happened before. I.e. it was a "I want to get out" effect combined with a "if I don't do it now I will miss out" effect.
- marcod 3y ago
  588 EUR per year is not peanuts especially for 17% of Germans who are poor. > 13.8 million Germans either live in poverty or are at risk of slipping below the poverty line. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-what-poverty-looks-like-in-a-rich-country/a-63393501 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-what-poverty-looks-like-in-a-r...
  - quonn 3y ago
    „For Germany, this means that single people who make less than €1,148 in net income a month are considered below the poverty line.“ So 50 Euros would be 5%. Additionally there are discounts for the poor, often bringing the price down to 20 or 30 Euros in most states.
  - JanSt 3y ago
    Average EU household spending in transportation is around 13% of income. Even at only 1000€/month this ticket is only 5%.
- wheels 3y ago
  That's absolutely false. I don't even spent €9 most months on public transit in Berlin, but at €9, I'd get it and probably use public transit more often (which is the point). There's no way I'd buy a €49 ticket. I primarily bike and drive, though I drive so little that I only have to fill up my tank every 2-3 months.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    There's no way you'd use public transport if it cost you 49 euros a month? Hmm I think that means you simply don't really want/need public transport because 49 euros a month for unlimited use is dirt cheap however you look at it. Frankly, I find it very odd the inhabitants of one of the richest countries on Earth argue over 9 vs 49 euros a month... that feels like next level spoiled.
    - morelisp 3y ago
      At 50 it's affordable to almost everyone. It's a big improvement, but still incremental. At 10 (or less) it's a safe assumption for everyone. You can start building things with zero provisions for cars, no excuses. It's a massive social shift.
    - throw_pm23 3y ago
      I don't know why it is odd. A ticket in Berlin is around 3 euros. If you make around 10 rides in an average month then a 9 or 29 euros pass is worth it, a 49 euros pass is not worth it. Not everyone will change their travel patterns because of a discounted pass, so there is some threshold at which it is worth it.
      - mytailorisrich 3y ago
        I get it you don't need that pass because you already get it cheaper. In fact I think very few people need a national pass and would rather prefer a cheaper local pass. But the general point is that 49 euros a month to use public transport is dirt cheap and is definitely not a barrier, quite the opposite. NB if a ticket is 3 euros it means 60/120 euros a month to commute daily without any discounted pass. Obviously, if you use only now and then the 3 euro ticket will be the cheapest option anyway...
- Zak 3y ago
  The 9€ ticket was so cheap and so heavily subsidized I found it a bit surprising they bothered charging for it at all. It resulted in very crowded trains in the middle of a covid wave. I bought the tickets, but used them so little I probably just broke even relative to the usual price. Not having a regular commute, I do not usually use 49€ worth of transit in a month. I'd rather ride my bike than be in a crowded train any time that's a viable option. Still, I'd buy the ticket just to always have the option at 9€. At 49€, I'll only buy one if I know I'm going to use it.

by h4kor 3y ago

mytailorisrich 3y ago

We need to realise that 9 euros or 49 euros makes no difference. Both are peanuts for the vast majority of people. Ultimately these schemes are based on the belief of the current people in charge to public transport should be free. Hence they pushing to get there. But trying to argue that 9 vs 49 is a huge difference feels rather immature.

h4kor 3y ago
9€ or 49€ makes a huge difference. 1. For unemployed people and people in low wage jobs, 40€/month is a lot of money, and many will not be able to afford this ticket. Meaning they have to stick to single tickets, whenever it is unavoidable or use other means of transportation. 2. During the 3 month of the 9€ ticket, we saw a huge increase in travels to surrounding areas of cities. Anecdotally, there are stories of bakeries, cafes, bars at the edge of the city who saw an significant increase in customers because the barrier to visit them was lower to virtually zero. People just visited different parts of their city, or other cities because it was now affordable for them. 3. 9€ is a price where you don't think about buying anything else. The first trip you take, you buy this ticket (even on the last day of the month). This massively simplifies traveling by bus and train. 49€ is something you only spend if you know that there will be multiple trips in the month. This combined with the subscription based model, makes the current ticket far less attractive than the previous 9€ ticket.
- JanSt 3y ago
  We germans love to criticize even huge improvements, don‘t we? 49€ is dead cheap for that ticket.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    It does feel rather surreal, indeed.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    100€ just for one/two Länder would've been a huge improvement for most people I know. It can be a huge improvement but we can still demand better.
  - h4kor 3y ago
    The discussion for this ticket started with 9€ so it's fair to compare the result to what they set out to achieve. 9€ would have been a revolution of public transportation. A major step to achieve the emission goals of ministry of transportation, which it utterly fails at and can't even come up with a strategy how to achieve any reductions. 49€ is nice for everyone already using public transportation on a regular basis, but will not induce a significant change in transportation method used, which is desperately needed.
- dathinab 3y ago
  The 2nd point is misleading as a major part of this effect was likely due to the novelty of the 9€ ticket and it being "only available for a short time" and the COVID lockdowns which had happened before. I.e. it was a "I want to get out" effect combined with a "if I don't do it now I will miss out" effect.
marcod 3y ago
588 EUR per year is not peanuts especially for 17% of Germans who are poor. > 13.8 million Germans either live in poverty or are at risk of slipping below the poverty line. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-what-poverty-looks-like-in-a-rich-country/a-63393501 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-what-poverty-looks-like-in-a-r...
- quonn 3y ago
  „For Germany, this means that single people who make less than €1,148 in net income a month are considered below the poverty line.“ So 50 Euros would be 5%. Additionally there are discounts for the poor, often bringing the price down to 20 or 30 Euros in most states.
- JanSt 3y ago
  Average EU household spending in transportation is around 13% of income. Even at only 1000€/month this ticket is only 5%.
wheels 3y ago
That's absolutely false. I don't even spent €9 most months on public transit in Berlin, but at €9, I'd get it and probably use public transit more often (which is the point). There's no way I'd buy a €49 ticket. I primarily bike and drive, though I drive so little that I only have to fill up my tank every 2-3 months.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  There's no way you'd use public transport if it cost you 49 euros a month? Hmm I think that means you simply don't really want/need public transport because 49 euros a month for unlimited use is dirt cheap however you look at it. Frankly, I find it very odd the inhabitants of one of the richest countries on Earth argue over 9 vs 49 euros a month... that feels like next level spoiled.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    At 50 it's affordable to almost everyone. It's a big improvement, but still incremental. At 10 (or less) it's a safe assumption for everyone. You can start building things with zero provisions for cars, no excuses. It's a massive social shift.
  - throw_pm23 3y ago
    I don't know why it is odd. A ticket in Berlin is around 3 euros. If you make around 10 rides in an average month then a 9 or 29 euros pass is worth it, a 49 euros pass is not worth it. Not everyone will change their travel patterns because of a discounted pass, so there is some threshold at which it is worth it.
    - mytailorisrich 3y ago
      I get it you don't need that pass because you already get it cheaper. In fact I think very few people need a national pass and would rather prefer a cheaper local pass. But the general point is that 49 euros a month to use public transport is dirt cheap and is definitely not a barrier, quite the opposite. NB if a ticket is 3 euros it means 60/120 euros a month to commute daily without any discounted pass. Obviously, if you use only now and then the 3 euro ticket will be the cheapest option anyway...
Zak 3y ago
The 9€ ticket was so cheap and so heavily subsidized I found it a bit surprising they bothered charging for it at all. It resulted in very crowded trains in the middle of a covid wave. I bought the tickets, but used them so little I probably just broke even relative to the usual price. Not having a regular commute, I do not usually use 49€ worth of transit in a month. I'd rather ride my bike than be in a crowded train any time that's a viable option. Still, I'd buy the ticket just to always have the option at 9€. At 49€, I'll only buy one if I know I'm going to use it.