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A big part of the reason for banning gas is not energy but indoor pollution. There's pretty strong and growing evidence that cooking with gas leads to substanti
by topaz0 4y ago
A big part of the reason for banning gas is not energy but indoor pollution. There's pretty strong and growing evidence that cooking with gas leads to substantial health risks because of various combustion products that end up in your air (especially if not properly vented).
- endisneigh 4y agoFrom what I’ve read the same indoor pollution exists with induction even if not vented. The confounding variable is that induction generally is present in new construction which will have proper ventilation. TLDR: it’s a function of ventilation
- dustymcp 4y agoCooking itself releases a bunch of stuff that isnt great regardless of stove its entirely on the ventilation.
- chokma 4y agoYeah, searing meat in the pan will raise the PM2.5 levels in my flat by a factor of 30+.
- bluescrn 4y agoWell, before long that choice to eat meat will likely be taken away to 'save the planet', so that one will be solved...
- collegeburner 4y agothis is why all yall need to start grilling :D tho i admit it kinda sucks ass when it's 100 degrees
- throwaway049 4y agoI don't have a view either way, but we can measure pollution from different cooking methods under controlled conditions so we know which is better or worse independent of ventilation. Ventilation depends partly on individual behaviour, eg I open windows in good weather and close them in winter.
- taeric 4y agoMost of the in air particles will be what you are cooking...
- Zak 4y agoOne of the concerns is nitrogen oxides (mostly nitrogen dioxide, as I recall) from high temperature combustion. Car engines attempt to limit combustion temperatures (usually by adding some exhaust gasses to the intake air) to reduce its production. Ventilation prevents it from reaching hazardous levels from a gas stove; induction does not produce it.
- endisneigh 4y agoThe point is most of the harm comes from the cooking, not the gas. Classic over optimizing. Might as well ban Teflon while you’re at it (the eu did this, as it’s harmful)
- Zak 4y agoI'm not sure whether that's true (nitrogen dioxide can be pretty bad), but I am sure that ventilation is the answer either way. I suspect the main motivation for the ban is to be able to shut down the gas lines in the future because their existence results in methane leaking into the atmosphere. Health concerns might help them sell it ("think of the children" tends to be pretty effective, politically).
- amluto 4y agoCooking on induction at moderate temperature does not seem to produce significant particulate pollution. Source: I have a stove, and I have a portable PM2.5 meter. So you can simmer a stock for a couple hours without needing to run the fan (and cook most anything under 300 degrees or so), and with the fan off you don’t lose nice conditioned air from inside.
- hedora 4y agoThere is some evidence that the skyrocketing asthma rates are due to natural gas. They should ban teflon. It leaches estrogen analogues into food, and is an endocrine disrupter. Also, teflon pans last 2-5% as long as cheaper cast iron / stainless steel equivalents (or most more expensive options).
- tomp 4y agoAre you a doctor? This one doctor (whom I probably trust the most of online doctors) disagrees. https://peterattiamd.com/putting-out-the-fire-on-the-gas-stove-debate/ https://peterattiamd.com/putting-out-the-fire-on-the-gas-sto... > For example, the analysis included multiple studies that found an association between gas cooking and respiratory disease in children but variously failed to evaluate parental smoking habits, indoor smoke, pet ownership, or outdoor pollution as other possible factors which might underlie the observed associations. In other words, we must interpret these conclusions with a high degree of caution.
- topaz0 4y agoNo, but I will be by the end of next week.
- gwbas1c 4y agoIndoor pollution from a gas stove has more to do with how the building was built. Older construction leaks a lot more air than newer construction, primarily due to changes in code. More specifically, the air in an older home, from the 1980s, might change over every four hours or so. In a newer home built to modern building codes, it's eight or ten hours.
- CydeWeys 4y agoHours is still an awfully long time to have dangerous chemicals floating around in your air after each time you cook a meal. My apartment has a gas stove, which I was was induction. The gas stove plus the lack of a hood that vents to the outside means the indoor air quality gets pretty messed up. I usually have to open some windows when cooking, which is not great in winter.
- amluto 4y agoYour stove may well cause quite dangerous NOx in rather less than 4 hours: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/suppl/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707/suppl_file/es1c04707_si_001.pdf https://pubs.acs.org/doi/suppl/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707/suppl... See the last page. What you need is a real vent that vents outside. Or a stove that doesn’t emit NOx (and carbon monoxide, etc). Frankly this whole thing is a bit absurd. Everyone ought to know that flue gas from a furnace or water heater is extremely dangerous when it ends up indoors. Why are gas stoves ever considered okay?
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoThe total effect on health seems rather debatable, and even if so there are better solutions (e.g. minimum ventilation requirements) for that. Total bans on products people use and can enjoy responsibility due to potential health risks is nearly always a bad idea in my opinion. Just look at smoking in the US, for example, which recently hit an all time low. We could have gone the prohibition route (and we can guess how that would turn out), but instead we clamped down on advertising, increased taxes, and helped usher in a societal change where smoking is largely seen as unacceptable behavior by huge swaths of people now.
- 8note 4y agoThis is not a total ban though? They aren't going to force the gas to be removed from current kitchens and heaters any time soon. There is a prohibition on smoking, kids aren't allowed to buy cigarettes
- 7speter 4y agoTheres a comment upthread championing this law because eventually government will ban all the miscreants who use gas powered appliances and heating from using them and using something much more hip and palatable to a subset of voters who can afford expensive house upgrades and electric cars at the snap of a finger.
- hedora 4y agoA top end GE induction range top is $1700. A lower end one is $400. These are both rounding errors vs. a year of energy bills. If you want something even cheaper (for instance, because you hate your tenants, and they are paying the power bill), resistive ones are still available.
- 7speter 4y agoAre you going to be paying for the electrical upgrades to homes that people on fixed incomes will need to get their 100+ year old homes up to code to be able to use one of these induction tops or should they just not live in a house to make you feel good?
- nemo44x 4y agoIt’s all made up and/or overblown by climate doomers. Vented gas is fine and great and removing them will contribute 0 to climate change.
- hedora 4y agoNatural gas is currently under 25% of US greenhouse emissions, but is on track to be over 50%: https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/climate-risks-natural-gas https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/climate-risks-natural-gas Granted, much of that is due to power plants, but residential + commercial is over 10%.