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It's really amazing how people can talk about 200 amps as if it's nothing. We have a household installation of 40 amps (220) and last year there were months tha

It's really amazing how people can talk about 200 amps as if it's nothing. We have a household installation of 40 amps (220) and last year there were months that cost 400 euros per month on electricity, and we are not heavy electricity users (we have no electric cloth dryer but have a small robot mower tho) It is almost like talking about 400HP cars/suvs, my 3 cylinder car is doing just fine at 84 kW max. Am I being pedantic?

mschuster91 4y ago
You're talking in Euros... we have 230V power, while Americans and a few other holdouts still use 110V. The problem is, the lower the voltage the more current you need - an 1 kW vacuum draws 9 amps in the US, but 4.5 in Europe. The unit of billing - kW/h - however remains the same.
- mamoswine 4y ago
  This sounds plausible but is subtly incorrect: the US uses split phase power and 100A means 100A on each of the two legs (+/-120V). So if you balance the legs correctly, you can get 240V*100A on 100A service. This is important for example for car charging where both legs are used and balanced.
- implements 4y ago
  America is 120v now, I believe - and many houses have a centre-tapped neutral supply [1] which means they actually can have 240v outlets in garages, workshops, utility rooms (etc) for high power devices. [1] https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/487836/how-does-a-center-tapped-transformer-work https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/487836/how-d...
  - nuancebydefault 4y ago
    So this is different from a 3 phase system (N L1 L2 L3) with 120 degrees shift between the lines? It is instead basically a 2 phase system N L1 L2 with a 180 degree phase shift between L1 and L2? I was already confused with the 240 being mentioned somewhere in this thread... it becomes a bit clearer now.
    - implements 4y ago
      Not an electrician, but yes (I think). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power
    - Gibbon1 4y ago
      Most US residential housing is fed off a 240V center tapped transformer. Center tap is connected to ground and neutral at the breaker panel. That gives you two 120V phases to neutral. And 240V from phase to phase. In the breaker panels the phase alternates as you go down the rows of breakers. So you can install a dual breaker for 240V. Typically only large appliances like stoves, water heater, driers, and air conditioners are 240V. Everything else is 120V.
  - baq 4y ago
    I heartily recommend a three phase induction stove. 400V of cooking power (mine is rated at something like 8kW…?). Carbon steel pans get ready in seconds.
Symbiote 4y ago
American houses mostly have air conditioning, which is a huge load. We don't, and make better use of shades, awnings etc. European houses have had two or three decades of efficiency improvements made to everything, so we don't have the 5kW clothes dryers mentioned above.
- nuancebydefault 4y ago
  Maybe this is a bit of a tangent but... shouldn't the world as a whole not be thinking about how to consume less in stead of obsessing with how to do the clean energy transition, without changing our habits a bit? If you think about it, there is still plenty of room for optimizing our energy consumption. The trend seems to be, replace the gasoline car not with a more fuel efficient one but rather with a car weighing almost double because it has to drag along a huge battery. Then replace all copper wires with double the section (copper mining, plastic production, tearing open perfect roads, ...) Some ideas, not very far fetched I would say, combine a few of these will get us a long way: Car pooling. Electric bicycles. Insulate your house better? Taking turns with neighbours to do grocery shopping or bringing kids to school. Try to repair stuff in stead of bying new. Drying clothes with renewable wind energy. (a hanging rack)
  - danans 4y ago
    > Car pooling. > Electric bicycles > Insulate your house better? > Taking turns with neighbours to do grocery shopping or bringing kids to school. > Try to repair stuff in stead of bying new. > Drying clothes with renewable wind energy. (a hanging rack) People do these things anyways with the right incentives, just to save time and money. But we still need to get off of fossil fuels for transportation and electricity generation if we want to avoid the worst climate change scenarios. The reality is that people really value convenience, and we have to find sustainable ways of delivering that. That might mean a great electric bus system, EVs, community thrift exchanges, etc
    - nuancebydefault 4y ago
      I agree, but it needs to be a combination of change of infrastructure and people's habits. After all it is just culture and culture evolves,so let it evolve in the right direction. 200 amps to every household seems not to be the right direction.

mschuster91 4y ago

You're talking in Euros... we have 230V power, while Americans and a few other holdouts still use 110V. The problem is, the lower the voltage the more current you need - an 1 kW vacuum draws 9 amps in the US, but 4.5 in Europe. The unit of billing - kW/h - however remains the same.

mamoswine 4y ago
This sounds plausible but is subtly incorrect: the US uses split phase power and 100A means 100A on each of the two legs (+/-120V). So if you balance the legs correctly, you can get 240V*100A on 100A service. This is important for example for car charging where both legs are used and balanced.
implements 4y ago
America is 120v now, I believe - and many houses have a centre-tapped neutral supply [1] which means they actually can have 240v outlets in garages, workshops, utility rooms (etc) for high power devices. [1] https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/487836/how-does-a-center-tapped-transformer-work https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/487836/how-d...
- nuancebydefault 4y ago
  So this is different from a 3 phase system (N L1 L2 L3) with 120 degrees shift between the lines? It is instead basically a 2 phase system N L1 L2 with a 180 degree phase shift between L1 and L2? I was already confused with the 240 being mentioned somewhere in this thread... it becomes a bit clearer now.
  - implements 4y ago
    Not an electrician, but yes (I think). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power
  - Gibbon1 4y ago
    Most US residential housing is fed off a 240V center tapped transformer. Center tap is connected to ground and neutral at the breaker panel. That gives you two 120V phases to neutral. And 240V from phase to phase. In the breaker panels the phase alternates as you go down the rows of breakers. So you can install a dual breaker for 240V. Typically only large appliances like stoves, water heater, driers, and air conditioners are 240V. Everything else is 120V.
- baq 4y ago
  I heartily recommend a three phase induction stove. 400V of cooking power (mine is rated at something like 8kW…?). Carbon steel pans get ready in seconds.

Symbiote 4y ago

American houses mostly have air conditioning, which is a huge load. We don't, and make better use of shades, awnings etc. European houses have had two or three decades of efficiency improvements made to everything, so we don't have the 5kW clothes dryers mentioned above.

nuancebydefault 4y ago
Maybe this is a bit of a tangent but... shouldn't the world as a whole not be thinking about how to consume less in stead of obsessing with how to do the clean energy transition, without changing our habits a bit? If you think about it, there is still plenty of room for optimizing our energy consumption. The trend seems to be, replace the gasoline car not with a more fuel efficient one but rather with a car weighing almost double because it has to drag along a huge battery. Then replace all copper wires with double the section (copper mining, plastic production, tearing open perfect roads, ...) Some ideas, not very far fetched I would say, combine a few of these will get us a long way: Car pooling. Electric bicycles. Insulate your house better? Taking turns with neighbours to do grocery shopping or bringing kids to school. Try to repair stuff in stead of bying new. Drying clothes with renewable wind energy. (a hanging rack)
- danans 4y ago
  > Car pooling. > Electric bicycles > Insulate your house better? > Taking turns with neighbours to do grocery shopping or bringing kids to school. > Try to repair stuff in stead of bying new. > Drying clothes with renewable wind energy. (a hanging rack) People do these things anyways with the right incentives, just to save time and money. But we still need to get off of fossil fuels for transportation and electricity generation if we want to avoid the worst climate change scenarios. The reality is that people really value convenience, and we have to find sustainable ways of delivering that. That might mean a great electric bus system, EVs, community thrift exchanges, etc
  - nuancebydefault 4y ago
    I agree, but it needs to be a combination of change of infrastructure and people's habits. After all it is just culture and culture evolves,so let it evolve in the right direction. 200 amps to every household seems not to be the right direction.