5 ms·

BlueSky ToS gives Jack a 'perpetual' & 'irrevocable' license to all your content

96 points by miles 3y ago

verdverm 3y ago
Wonder how this works if I implemented my own server for the protocol and a BlueSky user views it through their app? Will they try exercising dominion over the data layer? Will ads become part of the protocol, such that my client for the protocol must show their ads? Will 3rd party clients have to pay for data from some servers, who monetize by ad revenue? Of I run a server, will they take the content hosted there for free and then interleave ads for their users? The economics of this are unclear.
wmf 3y ago
Again, Bluesky isn't Jack.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Yes, this is a very loaded, biased headline and implication. Seems oddly personal. If the assumption is that "Jack" will remain at BlueSky indefinitely, perhaps looking at his history, and what the average founder does will show that's highly unlikely to be the case in the long-term. Perhaps the headline should be updated with this in mind. Even more surprising, the author is apparently a lawyer: https://threadreaderapp.com/user/ashleygjovik https://threadreaderapp.com/user/ashleygjovik Whilst that explains picking apart the ToS, it seems odd to name "Jack".
  - btown 3y ago
    Given that https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/bluesky-514d/company_financials https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/bluesky-514d/company... shows him as the only investor, it's reasonable to assume he's by far the controlling (if not only) shareholder. I'm not a lawyer, but it's reasonable IMHO to think that unless/until Bluesky gets additional institutional capital that would frown on this, it could effectively name Jack as a "licensee" or "assign" - the words in the policy - at any time without needing to alert the public, and give him full IP rights to user data.
  - wmf 3y ago
    Jack isn't even "at" Bluesky today.
  - jkombssukmmhf 3y ago
    [flagged]
- bigbillheck 3y ago
  It's synecdoche.
Manjuuu 3y ago
That will surely work in the EU, lol.
sp332 3y ago
Response from the CEO https://twitter.com/arcalinea/status/1651790592639397890 https://twitter.com/arcalinea/status/1651790592639397890 Not a lot of new information except that an updated ToS is expected soon.
- verdverm 3y ago
  I mean it is kind of revealing, either 1. The CEO is lying 2. The CEO did not read the ToS the lawyers wrote && did not expect these terms from the "standard social media ToS" they requested from the lawyers Both are not a good impression to give for the brand BlueSky is trying to create I really think we need a non-profit foundation for the social media protocols that will replace the walled gardens we have today.
  - wmf 3y ago
    We've been through this a dozen times; it's always #2.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      I'm more apt to believe #1 as a form of crisis response not well thought through
    - yazzku 3y ago
      For-profit that sells an illusion of control with hot words like 'federated'. We haven't been there either.
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    CEO is obviously lying. "My lawyers disobeyed my instructions" is wholly unbecoming a CEO. CEO's job is to get the big stuff right, not pass the buck to the people who work for her.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      That is not what this person said. They got what they asked the lawyers for, they are not blaming the lawyers
jatins 3y ago
Would have been easier to take the content seriously if it weren't for the clickbaity title
- benatkin 3y ago
  Quibbling about the "Jack" part, but that's also true.
jeffbee 3y ago
Perpetual/irrevocable rights to your posts are they only way Web 2.0 stuff can work. Every TOS includes a stanza like this one from Google: By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit
- radicalbyte 3y ago
  They can't do that under the GDPR: you can demand at any time that your personal data be deleted (and everything you create and all data stored about you by any social network is, by definition, personal data).
  - Shank 3y ago
    > and everything you create and all data stored about you by any social network is, by definition, personal data This isn’t true. This is a common misconception. GDPR strictly defines personal data into a narrow band of attributes. Generally any content that you make public that doesn’t identify a natural person or is sensitive by some other definition is not personal data. > Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual. Different pieces of information, which collected together can lead to the identification of a particular person, also constitute personal data. > Personal data that has been de-identified, encrypted or pseudonymised but can be used to re-identify a person remains personal data and falls within the scope of the GDPR. > Personal data that has been rendered anonymous in such a way that the individual is not or no longer identifiable is no longer considered personal data. For data to be truly anonymised, the anonymisation must be irreversible. See: https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/r...
    - oaiey 3y ago
      Your understanding is a bit strange considering that your username below your post makes your post related to a person (you) and is therefore personal data. A contribution to a social network tells something about you. Even if it is just a recipe you share. The only way that would work is when the social network allows 100% anonymous posts. Which is very difficult for liability reasons.
sacrosanct 3y ago
> BlueSky's Privacy Policy says they'll stalk everything you do on the site, but also what you were doing before you got there & what you do after > They'll use cookies, pixel tags, & web beacons on app, web, & emails to stalk you all over the web > They'll use info for targeted ads Personal Information Collec...Our uses of these Technolog...We use your information for...4. HOW WE DISCLOSE YOUR PER... BlueSky's Privacy Policy says that there's no such thing as good InfoSec & if anything happens to your data because they don't care, it's 100% not their fault > They 'may' 'attempt' to notify you of a breach > Reminder: if you want to argue this, its individual private arbitration. 6. SECURITY OF YOUR INFORMA... Don't build your castles on other people's land folks...
- fuomag9 3y ago
  > They 'may' 'attempt' to notify you of a breach GDPR lawyers will absolutely LOVE this
charcircuit 3y ago
This is standard legal boilerplate. In order for them to distribute your posts they need to have a license to do so first.
- jkombssukmmhf 3y ago
  [flagged]
hierophantos 3y ago
Jay Graeber is the founder and CEO of BlueSky. See her reply here: https://twitter.com/arcalinea/status/1651790592639397890?s=19 https://twitter.com/arcalinea/status/1651790592639397890?s=1...

96 points by miles 3y ago

Wonder how this works if I implemented my own server for the protocol and a BlueSky user views it through their app? Will they try exercising dominion over the data layer? Will ads become part of the protocol, such that my client for the protocol must show their ads? Will 3rd party clients have to pay for data from some servers, who monetize by ad revenue? Of I run a server, will they take the content hosted there for free and then interleave ads for their users? The economics of this are unclear.

wmf 3y ago

Again, Bluesky isn't Jack.

hammyhavoc 3y ago
Yes, this is a very loaded, biased headline and implication. Seems oddly personal. If the assumption is that "Jack" will remain at BlueSky indefinitely, perhaps looking at his history, and what the average founder does will show that's highly unlikely to be the case in the long-term. Perhaps the headline should be updated with this in mind. Even more surprising, the author is apparently a lawyer: https://threadreaderapp.com/user/ashleygjovik https://threadreaderapp.com/user/ashleygjovik Whilst that explains picking apart the ToS, it seems odd to name "Jack".
- btown 3y ago
  Given that https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/bluesky-514d/company_financials https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/bluesky-514d/company... shows him as the only investor, it's reasonable to assume he's by far the controlling (if not only) shareholder. I'm not a lawyer, but it's reasonable IMHO to think that unless/until Bluesky gets additional institutional capital that would frown on this, it could effectively name Jack as a "licensee" or "assign" - the words in the policy - at any time without needing to alert the public, and give him full IP rights to user data.
- wmf 3y ago
  Jack isn't even "at" Bluesky today.
- jkombssukmmhf 3y ago
  [flagged]
bigbillheck 3y ago
It's synecdoche.

Manjuuu 3y ago

That will surely work in the EU, lol.

sp332 3y ago

Response from the CEO https://twitter.com/arcalinea/status/1651790592639397890 https://twitter.com/arcalinea/status/1651790592639397890 Not a lot of new information except that an updated ToS is expected soon.

verdverm 3y ago
I mean it is kind of revealing, either 1. The CEO is lying 2. The CEO did not read the ToS the lawyers wrote && did not expect these terms from the "standard social media ToS" they requested from the lawyers Both are not a good impression to give for the brand BlueSky is trying to create I really think we need a non-profit foundation for the social media protocols that will replace the walled gardens we have today.
- wmf 3y ago
  We've been through this a dozen times; it's always #2.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    I'm more apt to believe #1 as a form of crisis response not well thought through
  - yazzku 3y ago
    For-profit that sells an illusion of control with hot words like 'federated'. We haven't been there either.
- hgsgm 3y ago
  CEO is obviously lying. "My lawyers disobeyed my instructions" is wholly unbecoming a CEO. CEO's job is to get the big stuff right, not pass the buck to the people who work for her.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    That is not what this person said. They got what they asked the lawyers for, they are not blaming the lawyers

jatins 3y ago

Would have been easier to take the content seriously if it weren't for the clickbaity title

benatkin 3y ago
Quibbling about the "Jack" part, but that's also true.

jeffbee 3y ago

Perpetual/irrevocable rights to your posts are they only way Web 2.0 stuff can work. Every TOS includes a stanza like this one from Google: By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit

radicalbyte 3y ago
They can't do that under the GDPR: you can demand at any time that your personal data be deleted (and everything you create and all data stored about you by any social network is, by definition, personal data).
- Shank 3y ago
  > and everything you create and all data stored about you by any social network is, by definition, personal data This isn’t true. This is a common misconception. GDPR strictly defines personal data into a narrow band of attributes. Generally any content that you make public that doesn’t identify a natural person or is sensitive by some other definition is not personal data. > Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual. Different pieces of information, which collected together can lead to the identification of a particular person, also constitute personal data. > Personal data that has been de-identified, encrypted or pseudonymised but can be used to re-identify a person remains personal data and falls within the scope of the GDPR. > Personal data that has been rendered anonymous in such a way that the individual is not or no longer identifiable is no longer considered personal data. For data to be truly anonymised, the anonymisation must be irreversible. See: https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/what-personal-data_en https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/r...
  - oaiey 3y ago
    Your understanding is a bit strange considering that your username below your post makes your post related to a person (you) and is therefore personal data. A contribution to a social network tells something about you. Even if it is just a recipe you share. The only way that would work is when the social network allows 100% anonymous posts. Which is very difficult for liability reasons.

sacrosanct 3y ago

> BlueSky's Privacy Policy says they'll stalk everything you do on the site, but also what you were doing before you got there & what you do after > They'll use cookies, pixel tags, & web beacons on app, web, & emails to stalk you all over the web > They'll use info for targeted ads Personal Information Collec...Our uses of these Technolog...We use your information for...4. HOW WE DISCLOSE YOUR PER... BlueSky's Privacy Policy says that there's no such thing as good InfoSec & if anything happens to your data because they don't care, it's 100% not their fault > They 'may' 'attempt' to notify you of a breach > Reminder: if you want to argue this, its individual private arbitration. 6. SECURITY OF YOUR INFORMA... Don't build your castles on other people's land folks...

fuomag9 3y ago
> They 'may' 'attempt' to notify you of a breach GDPR lawyers will absolutely LOVE this

charcircuit 3y ago

This is standard legal boilerplate. In order for them to distribute your posts they need to have a license to do so first.

jkombssukmmhf 3y ago
[flagged]

hierophantos 3y ago

Jay Graeber is the founder and CEO of BlueSky. See her reply here: https://twitter.com/arcalinea/status/1651790592639397890?s=19 https://twitter.com/arcalinea/status/1651790592639397890?s=1...