5 ms·

My impression from talking to musicians with absolute pitch is that it’s more an annoyance than anything. They’re always hearing how things in the real world ar

My impression from talking to musicians with absolute pitch is that it’s more an annoyance than anything. They’re always hearing how things in the real world are slightly off pitch.

raincole 4y ago
How much "resolution" do their ears have? Like can someone with absolute pitch tell whether an instrument is in 12-ET or just intonation without a reference?
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  Microtonality is a rabbit hole you'll likely enjoy.
- colanderman 4y ago
  Intonation is a matter of relative pitch. I have good relative pitch, and can distinguish intonation to a degree. People with absolute pitch can nonetheless distinguish pitch with better than semitone accuracy. This is why it's often a hindrance, because if an ensemble is tuned to a slightly different reference, it is quite noticeable to them.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    I've wondered if it's possible to train exact, frequency-based pitch, instead of this relative tuning-based absolute pitch. I wonder if that would be as discordant to the trained ear when switching to another tuning.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Perfect pitch is a simplification, it's not really binary like you either have it or don't. People have varying ability, practice, and speed at identifying a note relative to a reference, and "perfect" is how we describe being past some threshold. When we talk about perfect pitch we're usually assuming 12-tet tuned to A440 but you correctly homed in on the "problem" with perfect pitch. Is that C a little sharp, or did they just tune to A446 for some reason? Just intonation, microtonal scales, there are a lot of notes out there. How do you know they're "wrong" and not just trying to play the note that sounds out of tune to your ear. "Perfect" has to be established against some intention, we just usually assume 12-tet A440. Anyway the ability is at least somewhat a matter of practice and training, so you can develop it against any consistent reference, regardless of the tuning or intonation system.
- iainmerrick 4y ago
  That’s a question about relative pitches, not absolute - you can definitely hear if e.g. the third is a little sharp or flat even if you don’t have perfect absolute pitch. More generally, I think the answer is “pretty high-resolution”. Lots of people can definitely hear the difference between equal and just temperament. IIRC most people’s hearing is accurate to around 10 cents (a tenth of a semitone). Wikipedia suggests musicians generally tune to within 12 cents, and the “just noticeable difference” is 5-6. You’d only need absolute accuracy better than 50 cents to be able to correctly name a note on the piano. I’d guess most people with perfect pitch are more accurate than that, likely around the same ~10 cents mark. Anecdotally, I have a musician friend with perfect pitch who finds it annoying sometime, as they find it unsettling when music is tuned slightly sharp or flat; so I think their sensitivity is much finer than a semitone.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  I have very good relative pitch and used to moonlight as a harpsichord tuner. I can tell you if an instrument is in equal temperament - an equal-tempered fifth and an equal-tempered third have very distinctive sounds. With enough time, I can also identify most of the common baroque temperaments: Just Intonation and quarter-comma meantone stick out like a sore thumb, but tunings like Werckmeister and the others that attempt to be close to equally tempered are harder to pick out by ear since you really need to hear a lot of the circle of fifths to identify which one is used. However, this skill isn't due to hearing a precise gap between the two notes, but listening to the beating of the overtones of the notes. It's a very different skill than what you learn in school to identify intervals. Also, professional string players can often tune equal tempered fifths (~2 cents flat of a pure fifth) precisely on their instruments.
troupe 4y ago
I sincerely doubt that if you ask a professional musician with perfect pitch if they would "turn it off" they would say yes.
- psychoslave 4y ago
  Is it necessarily something like "turned on h24 in every single sound"? I would be rather surprised that it would be the case in general.
  - zuminator 4y ago
    A person with perfect pitch can no more turn off knowing the pitch of a sound than a person with relative pitch can turn off knowing if one sound is a higher pitch than another.
slmjkdbtl 4y ago
Have you really met people with perfect pitch with that level of resolution, like can tell 440hz from 432hz? I always thought that was a myth.
wirrbel 4y ago
I think there is also perfect pitch and Perfect Pitch. identifying which note is played is different from what is essentially a frequency inference.

My impression from talking to musicians with absolute pitch is that it’s more an annoyance than anything. They’re always hearing how things in the real world are slightly off pitch.

raincole 4y ago

How much "resolution" do their ears have? Like can someone with absolute pitch tell whether an instrument is in 12-ET or just intonation without a reference?

hammyhavoc 4y ago
Microtonality is a rabbit hole you'll likely enjoy.
colanderman 4y ago
Intonation is a matter of relative pitch. I have good relative pitch, and can distinguish intonation to a degree. People with absolute pitch can nonetheless distinguish pitch with better than semitone accuracy. This is why it's often a hindrance, because if an ensemble is tuned to a slightly different reference, it is quite noticeable to them.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  I've wondered if it's possible to train exact, frequency-based pitch, instead of this relative tuning-based absolute pitch. I wonder if that would be as discordant to the trained ear when switching to another tuning.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
Perfect pitch is a simplification, it's not really binary like you either have it or don't. People have varying ability, practice, and speed at identifying a note relative to a reference, and "perfect" is how we describe being past some threshold. When we talk about perfect pitch we're usually assuming 12-tet tuned to A440 but you correctly homed in on the "problem" with perfect pitch. Is that C a little sharp, or did they just tune to A446 for some reason? Just intonation, microtonal scales, there are a lot of notes out there. How do you know they're "wrong" and not just trying to play the note that sounds out of tune to your ear. "Perfect" has to be established against some intention, we just usually assume 12-tet A440. Anyway the ability is at least somewhat a matter of practice and training, so you can develop it against any consistent reference, regardless of the tuning or intonation system.
iainmerrick 4y ago
That’s a question about relative pitches, not absolute - you can definitely hear if e.g. the third is a little sharp or flat even if you don’t have perfect absolute pitch. More generally, I think the answer is “pretty high-resolution”. Lots of people can definitely hear the difference between equal and just temperament. IIRC most people’s hearing is accurate to around 10 cents (a tenth of a semitone). Wikipedia suggests musicians generally tune to within 12 cents, and the “just noticeable difference” is 5-6. You’d only need absolute accuracy better than 50 cents to be able to correctly name a note on the piano. I’d guess most people with perfect pitch are more accurate than that, likely around the same ~10 cents mark. Anecdotally, I have a musician friend with perfect pitch who finds it annoying sometime, as they find it unsettling when music is tuned slightly sharp or flat; so I think their sensitivity is much finer than a semitone.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
I have very good relative pitch and used to moonlight as a harpsichord tuner. I can tell you if an instrument is in equal temperament - an equal-tempered fifth and an equal-tempered third have very distinctive sounds. With enough time, I can also identify most of the common baroque temperaments: Just Intonation and quarter-comma meantone stick out like a sore thumb, but tunings like Werckmeister and the others that attempt to be close to equally tempered are harder to pick out by ear since you really need to hear a lot of the circle of fifths to identify which one is used. However, this skill isn't due to hearing a precise gap between the two notes, but listening to the beating of the overtones of the notes. It's a very different skill than what you learn in school to identify intervals. Also, professional string players can often tune equal tempered fifths (~2 cents flat of a pure fifth) precisely on their instruments.

troupe 4y ago

I sincerely doubt that if you ask a professional musician with perfect pitch if they would "turn it off" they would say yes.

psychoslave 4y ago
Is it necessarily something like "turned on h24 in every single sound"? I would be rather surprised that it would be the case in general.
- zuminator 4y ago
  A person with perfect pitch can no more turn off knowing the pitch of a sound than a person with relative pitch can turn off knowing if one sound is a higher pitch than another.

slmjkdbtl 4y ago

Have you really met people with perfect pitch with that level of resolution, like can tell 440hz from 432hz? I always thought that was a myth.

wirrbel 4y ago

I think there is also perfect pitch and Perfect Pitch. identifying which note is played is different from what is essentially a frequency inference.