4 ms·

So his purpose in doing that job was, it appears, to keep himself fed and housed until he could find something better.

by harvey9 4y ago

msrenee 4y ago
Sounds like it. Very fulfilling.
- harvey9 4y ago
  It's not fulfilling, that's why I assumed he's looking for other work. But the person I replied to has added that this job requires a lot of study to get into - which means he would have to accept that study as a sunk cost.
  - msrenee 4y ago
    Sorry, that was sarcasm. You were replying to someone that thought people worked crappy jobs because of some other reason besides they literally can't get anything better. Kind of mind-blowing that someone could delude themselves to the point where they can believe folks work miserable jobs for any reason other than trying not to go broke.
v-erne 4y ago
As usual life is more complex than any idealistic simplification - I do not believe thath you can sum up his situation in one sentence. But it would be probably a lot easier on him if he did it becesue it kept him fed (that would at least give him feeling of necessity). The story of his tragedy began when he was finishing highschool and could not decide what to do with himself. He literally had no idea about future, so our father, a legal council of 30 years, choose for him - he paid for five year law degree. And after my brother finished the university, he still did not have any idea what to do, so my father forced him to take law application (I'm not sure how you translate this into english - in my country lawyers are legaly obliged to take additional high level degree after law degree to specialize in being legal council, judge, prosecutor or bailiff). There are yearly limits of applicants in my country and since my brother was quite bad at this whole law stuff (once again - this was not his thing, it was choosen for him) he could not get legal council application, so the father forced him to choose the only that left, the one that no one else wanted to do - bailiff application. So he did it and after two years of hard work he finished the application with bailiff title but without bailif practice (which is also limited here in Poland - you are literally nominated by the government to do this here, you are legaly forbiden to practice on your own without the nomination). Not having government nomination he had to work in local bailiff office (which was only possible because our father used to know some people) - once again this was not his own idea (he had no agancy of his own - from his perpective he would be glad to just sit and play games whole day). He worked there for five years, and the stuff he did, the people he met, the clients he had to handle, broke him. After office was closed due to his boss retiremen he could not get another job, because once again he was psychically devastated, and people who interviewed him could sense this. And for last few years he just lives with our parents and goes to thereapy and tries to gather what left of his life together. And the tragic part of all this if you look at cost of his education it would probably be a net gain for society, my parents, and my brother to just forget this whole law degree, bayliff application and few years of work at office and just lay down and play video games. Each time I think about all this forced idealistic stuff where we are all supposed to find purpose in jobs, because jobs are good (TM), I think about my brother and his wasted life. To warap this up, I just remembered a quote from song by Polish artist "Kazik" about steelworks worker who wasted his life in job in one of polish factories that were bankrupt from the get go (as the whole communistic system was also): "Cała jego ciężka praca, wszystko było c**a warte Gdyby leżał całe życie, mniejszą czyniłby on stratę" Which, according to ChatGPT, can be loosely translated to: "His entire hard work, everything was worth s**. If he lay his whole life, he would make a smaller loss to me."
- harvey9 4y ago
  Thank you for posting this. I think there must be even more back story but of course you are not obligated to share it. I am astonished it takes two years of study to be a bailiff in Poland. As I understand it the job requires a basic understand of a very narrow area of law, plus the 'soft skills' to avoid escalating difficult situations into violent ones. Is the long study some kind of gatekeeping?
  - v-erne 4y ago
    I have rahther limited knowledge on why this occupation is so regulated here - but the regulation is rather brutal and encoded into law. Here you can see law (bill?) on court bailiffs applicants: https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/komornicy-sadowi-18712992/roz-6 https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/komornicy-... Two first points of article 66 regulates maximum number of yearly applicants (which cannot be bigger than 15% of current count of bailiffs). And first point of article 93 sets the study length at two years. I also forgot that my brother had to do additional obligatory two year practice after this two year study (as "assesor komorniczy" - this is also regulated in article 11 of bill mentioned above). The rationalization behind it all seems to be that being court bailiff gives you quite large amount of power and potential for earning lots of money eventually - if they (the government) will let you at some point start your own practice/office the money will start pouring in (you get a percent from each confiscation! most old bailiffs becomes millionairs eventually). My brother never got to this point - he was at the lowest possible position, doing all dirty work, earning a little bit above national minimum wage, and then he burned out. As as side note - I work in IT, and each time I feel burned out, I remember my brother and this somehow puts into perspective what does it actually mean to be burned down (this of course does not mean that there are no real problems with overworking, work-life balance and depression in IT industry, but still - we have it really good).
- than3 4y ago
  While not a positive tale, I think the the point you are trying to make is more about coercion/compulsion (i.e. generally what you see as a lack of agency), than it is about specific things like poor parenting (which is also very common). Also, arguably if regulation wasn't so draconian the requirements wouldn't necessarily be so high, and if debt wasn't so easily available to pay for it, it would be cheaper, and more opportunities would be available. Overregulation can be a stifling thing.

So his purpose in doing that job was, it appears, to keep himself fed and housed until he could find something better.

msrenee 4y ago

Sounds like it. Very fulfilling.

harvey9 4y ago
It's not fulfilling, that's why I assumed he's looking for other work. But the person I replied to has added that this job requires a lot of study to get into - which means he would have to accept that study as a sunk cost.
- msrenee 4y ago
  Sorry, that was sarcasm. You were replying to someone that thought people worked crappy jobs because of some other reason besides they literally can't get anything better. Kind of mind-blowing that someone could delude themselves to the point where they can believe folks work miserable jobs for any reason other than trying not to go broke.

v-erne 4y ago

As usual life is more complex than any idealistic simplification - I do not believe thath you can sum up his situation in one sentence. But it would be probably a lot easier on him if he did it becesue it kept him fed (that would at least give him feeling of necessity). The story of his tragedy began when he was finishing highschool and could not decide what to do with himself. He literally had no idea about future, so our father, a legal council of 30 years, choose for him - he paid for five year law degree. And after my brother finished the university, he still did not have any idea what to do, so my father forced him to take law application (I'm not sure how you translate this into english - in my country lawyers are legaly obliged to take additional high level degree after law degree to specialize in being legal council, judge, prosecutor or bailiff). There are yearly limits of applicants in my country and since my brother was quite bad at this whole law stuff (once again - this was not his thing, it was choosen for him) he could not get legal council application, so the father forced him to choose the only that left, the one that no one else wanted to do - bailiff application. So he did it and after two years of hard work he finished the application with bailiff title but without bailif practice (which is also limited here in Poland - you are literally nominated by the government to do this here, you are legaly forbiden to practice on your own without the nomination). Not having government nomination he had to work in local bailiff office (which was only possible because our father used to know some people) - once again this was not his own idea (he had no agancy of his own - from his perpective he would be glad to just sit and play games whole day). He worked there for five years, and the stuff he did, the people he met, the clients he had to handle, broke him. After office was closed due to his boss retiremen he could not get another job, because once again he was psychically devastated, and people who interviewed him could sense this. And for last few years he just lives with our parents and goes to thereapy and tries to gather what left of his life together. And the tragic part of all this if you look at cost of his education it would probably be a net gain for society, my parents, and my brother to just forget this whole law degree, bayliff application and few years of work at office and just lay down and play video games. Each time I think about all this forced idealistic stuff where we are all supposed to find purpose in jobs, because jobs are good (TM), I think about my brother and his wasted life. To warap this up, I just remembered a quote from song by Polish artist "Kazik" about steelworks worker who wasted his life in job in one of polish factories that were bankrupt from the get go (as the whole communistic system was also): "Cała jego ciężka praca, wszystko było c**a warte Gdyby leżał całe życie, mniejszą czyniłby on stratę" Which, according to ChatGPT, can be loosely translated to: "His entire hard work, everything was worth s**. If he lay his whole life, he would make a smaller loss to me."

harvey9 4y ago
Thank you for posting this. I think there must be even more back story but of course you are not obligated to share it. I am astonished it takes two years of study to be a bailiff in Poland. As I understand it the job requires a basic understand of a very narrow area of law, plus the 'soft skills' to avoid escalating difficult situations into violent ones. Is the long study some kind of gatekeeping?
- v-erne 4y ago
  I have rahther limited knowledge on why this occupation is so regulated here - but the regulation is rather brutal and encoded into law. Here you can see law (bill?) on court bailiffs applicants: https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/komornicy-sadowi-18712992/roz-6 https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/komornicy-... Two first points of article 66 regulates maximum number of yearly applicants (which cannot be bigger than 15% of current count of bailiffs). And first point of article 93 sets the study length at two years. I also forgot that my brother had to do additional obligatory two year practice after this two year study (as "assesor komorniczy" - this is also regulated in article 11 of bill mentioned above). The rationalization behind it all seems to be that being court bailiff gives you quite large amount of power and potential for earning lots of money eventually - if they (the government) will let you at some point start your own practice/office the money will start pouring in (you get a percent from each confiscation! most old bailiffs becomes millionairs eventually). My brother never got to this point - he was at the lowest possible position, doing all dirty work, earning a little bit above national minimum wage, and then he burned out. As as side note - I work in IT, and each time I feel burned out, I remember my brother and this somehow puts into perspective what does it actually mean to be burned down (this of course does not mean that there are no real problems with overworking, work-life balance and depression in IT industry, but still - we have it really good).
than3 4y ago
While not a positive tale, I think the the point you are trying to make is more about coercion/compulsion (i.e. generally what you see as a lack of agency), than it is about specific things like poor parenting (which is also very common). Also, arguably if regulation wasn't so draconian the requirements wouldn't necessarily be so high, and if debt wasn't so easily available to pay for it, it would be cheaper, and more opportunities would be available. Overregulation can be a stifling thing.