5 ms·

No wasn't suspecting nuisance-satellite of being near-eternal! I mean we have had a real night sky for millenia, and now a handful of men are being permitted,

No wasn't suspecting nuisance-satellite of being near-eternal! I mean we have had a real night sky for millenia, and now a handful of men are being permitted, with hardly any communal discussion or decision, to expunge it. Many won't notice, of course, having been denatured by suburbia.

ghaff 3y ago
Let's ban commercial aviation at night too. Though I'm not sure why the night sky enjoys special status over the day sky. The rich people wouldn't be getting paid money if lots of people who couldn't otherwise get it weren't happy to pay for Internet.
- crispinb 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - newZWhoDis 3y ago
    People like you said the same thing when we built roads, bridges, steam ships, aircraft, and now spacecraft. Instead of bothering those who are building the future, you’re welcome to run off in the woods and LARP as ted kaczynski. It’s certainly preferable to moaning on the internet about how others are “denatured”.
    - edgyquant 3y ago
      I disagree with that poster as well, but this is a bit of an immature response. People are welcome to have worries about this stuff and it’s better to argue for their arguments being misguided than tell them to go live in the woods if they don’t like it.
      - evandale 3y ago
        At a certain point the only way to get through to people is to respond in a way that matches their maturity level. When people are saying ridiculous things like "You will be as insouciant, and as clueless, when your much-admired billionaire masters destroy the last remaining living ecosystem" about satellites in LEO you're not dealing with a person with adult emotions. For one, the last time I checked LEO isn't an ecosystem with living things in it and I can't think of a single ecosystem out there we could destroy. Whatever "ecosystem" that exists in LEO is an ecosystem _we_ created. I guarantee good old "nature" won't be creating life there anytime soon if you're excluding humans from nature.
        crispinb 3y ago
        If it's "mature" to disregard basic values, then we're stuffed. Attitudes and values cluster. People who care about night skies also care about ecosystems. Denatured, psychologically-damaged people who value neither, destroy both. There is no distinction between "nature" and anything else. There is only the real physical world.
        evandale 3y ago
        > There is no distinction between "nature" and anything else. Yet here you are calling us "denatured, psychologically damaged people." Is that not you making a distinction between us and nature? What's so bad about being denatured if there's no distinction between nature and everything else? You can't be denatured if you _are_ nature, it's contradictory. What exactly is your view here?
    - crispinb 3y ago
      That's an absurd response. You don't need to carry today's dominant political manichaeanism into every aspect of your responses to events. Making decisions about what to do (whether to build, mine, manufacture) is all about making distinctions. I'm not against all new developments, and it's barely intelligible to be for all. But I am (like nearly everyone in the world outside of the US-based libertarian contingent) against tiny numbers of people (literally a handful of billionaires) making decisions for the entire planet.
wkat4242 3y ago
Ah now I understand. Sorry for my misunderstanding.
- crispinb 3y ago
  Not at all. I phrased the comment clumsily in a quick fly-by way, so it was very easily misunderstood ;)
oh_sigh 3y ago
You can't see the satellites with the naked eye when they are in their target orbit. You can occasionally see them as they are advancing to their orbit, and they look no different than an airplane at night looks. Except cooler.

ghaff 3y ago

Let's ban commercial aviation at night too. Though I'm not sure why the night sky enjoys special status over the day sky. The rich people wouldn't be getting paid money if lots of people who couldn't otherwise get it weren't happy to pay for Internet.

crispinb 3y ago
[flagged]
- newZWhoDis 3y ago
  People like you said the same thing when we built roads, bridges, steam ships, aircraft, and now spacecraft. Instead of bothering those who are building the future, you’re welcome to run off in the woods and LARP as ted kaczynski. It’s certainly preferable to moaning on the internet about how others are “denatured”.
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    I disagree with that poster as well, but this is a bit of an immature response. People are welcome to have worries about this stuff and it’s better to argue for their arguments being misguided than tell them to go live in the woods if they don’t like it.
    - evandale 3y ago
      At a certain point the only way to get through to people is to respond in a way that matches their maturity level. When people are saying ridiculous things like "You will be as insouciant, and as clueless, when your much-admired billionaire masters destroy the last remaining living ecosystem" about satellites in LEO you're not dealing with a person with adult emotions. For one, the last time I checked LEO isn't an ecosystem with living things in it and I can't think of a single ecosystem out there we could destroy. Whatever "ecosystem" that exists in LEO is an ecosystem _we_ created. I guarantee good old "nature" won't be creating life there anytime soon if you're excluding humans from nature.
      - crispinb 3y ago
        If it's "mature" to disregard basic values, then we're stuffed. Attitudes and values cluster. People who care about night skies also care about ecosystems. Denatured, psychologically-damaged people who value neither, destroy both. There is no distinction between "nature" and anything else. There is only the real physical world.
        evandale 3y ago
        > There is no distinction between "nature" and anything else. Yet here you are calling us "denatured, psychologically damaged people." Is that not you making a distinction between us and nature? What's so bad about being denatured if there's no distinction between nature and everything else? You can't be denatured if you _are_ nature, it's contradictory. What exactly is your view here?
  - crispinb 3y ago
    That's an absurd response. You don't need to carry today's dominant political manichaeanism into every aspect of your responses to events. Making decisions about what to do (whether to build, mine, manufacture) is all about making distinctions. I'm not against all new developments, and it's barely intelligible to be for all. But I am (like nearly everyone in the world outside of the US-based libertarian contingent) against tiny numbers of people (literally a handful of billionaires) making decisions for the entire planet.

wkat4242 3y ago

Ah now I understand. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

crispinb 3y ago
Not at all. I phrased the comment clumsily in a quick fly-by way, so it was very easily misunderstood ;)

oh_sigh 3y ago

You can't see the satellites with the naked eye when they are in their target orbit. You can occasionally see them as they are advancing to their orbit, and they look no different than an airplane at night looks. Except cooler.