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I really don't get it. Many of these countries don't even have the resources for clean water, sewage, and reliable agriculture. The idea that they're going to j

I really don't get it. Many of these countries don't even have the resources for clean water, sewage, and reliable agriculture. The idea that they're going to just think their way out of poverty is a very western idea that comes from quite a privileged background. You're not going to be able to do any of that luxurious learning when your stomach is empty and you're having to sleep each night in some war-torn slum. These countries need a lot of basic things before getting them online will have any real impact... Some of the poorest countries don't even have stable governments. I think most idealist people here would be utterly crushed by how bad the situation is in some countries. Going in with ideas of how tech will be used to raise everyone up... Then having to live in camps with armed guards outside because there's frequent raids... No way to even get supplies in because corrupt beaurocrats keep asking for bribes. The same beaurocrats who are supposed to be on the side of their country are also massively part of the problem. Then you end up realizing that there's so many problems and inter-dependencies that it's not clear if any single person can do anything positive. All aboard the FEEL TRAIN. Yeah, its hard, I wish I knew the answer.

brianvli 3y ago
Is it really so binary that either they’re rich westerners or they’re so destitute they can’t benefit from this project? Also, this project ends up being a compact way to deliver educational material. Imagine sending them the equivalent in physical books and manuals
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  it's a very privileged western view that all "third world" countries are destitute and starving
  - wil421 3y ago
    > You're not going to be able to do any of that luxurious learning when your stomach is empty and you're having to sleep each night in some war-torn slum. Not sure why your calling out this poster when the OP said the above.
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    I feel that's exactly what the op was saying in response to gp? There's a spectrum, and while we should have increased empathy and awareness of a LOT of places in the world where life is spectacularly rough and wildly different than ours (2 years of my childhood were in a civil war and my Canadian wife just cannot fathom any of those experiences), there are indeed a lot of places in the world where knowledge and access and technology are helpful.
    - kevviiinn 3y ago
      I was rephrasing the comment I'm replying to in agreement
zamnos 3y ago
For their businesses owners and upper class, I'm pretty sure that sending money abroad to Facebook for advertising or Uber for taxi service doesn't help the situation. Local apps like FoodPanda or Grab at least let the money stay in-country or in-region, instead of off to California. But the level of poverty is unreal. I had multiple hotels charge me a deposit for key card so I'd return it, and breaking large bills (the equivalent to US $20) wasn't something that most shops actually had change for.
wffurr 3y ago
Did you see what this project actually is? It's not a live internet connection. It's a content pack of extremely useful reference materials and such for solving exactly a lot of those problems, with solar power and local wifi. It's a end run around those corrupt bureaucrats. Is it perfect or going to solve everything? Obviously not, but it's cheap, simple, and robust.
kilroy123 3y ago
Very true. It reminds me of the time I visited a remote Ethiopian village. Very poor area, but they seemed fairly self-sufficient. There was a large solar oven given to the village by some NGO. Looks like: https://www.voanews.com/a/south-african-firm-aims-to-supply-millions-with-solar-cookers/1495436.html https://www.voanews.com/a/south-african-firm-aims-to-supply-... You can see it was never used. I asked the guide, do they even use this thing? He laughed and said no. It was basically a decoration piece. What did they use to cook? The wood they go out to collect.
brazzy 3y ago
You're just being contrarian, not more realistic. Which is also a very privileged position. I also suspect that you haven't actually visited many poor countries. Even for extremely poor people, free and easy access to information and communication can have very substantial, practical benefits. A layman's medical encyclopedia that lists smyptoms and treatments for common illnesses may not be an adequate replacement for a trained doctor, but it's a hell of a lot better than nothing. One of the most important factors to enable the "reliable agriculture" you mentioned is access to a good weather forecast. Even one that's only good for the next two days can be a game-changer when it allows you to harvest a crop that might otherwise get spoiled. Another example I've read: access to cell phones massively improved the lives of fishermen in Northern Africa by allowing them to find out in which nearby port the demand for fish is highest. Previously, they'd have to guess and often there would be an oversupply (and thus low prices and fish that goes to waste) in one town, while another twon 20km away had people go hungry because there was too little fish and the prices too high.
- bobsmooth 3y ago
  It's such a privileged position to be even able to underestimate the importance of knowledge.
MandieD 3y ago
There are billions of people living in situations between the poorest parts of the EU (yet still in better circumstances than the majority of the world) and war-torn starvation in Sudan, and things like this are for them. Plenty of people who can’t afford satellite internet can read just fine. And I, a well-off tech worker in urban Germany, use the project as part of my own emergency communications prep. Internet outages are possible even for rich Europeans and Americans, and we’re awfully dependent on being able to look stuff up.

brianvli 3y ago

Is it really so binary that either they’re rich westerners or they’re so destitute they can’t benefit from this project? Also, this project ends up being a compact way to deliver educational material. Imagine sending them the equivalent in physical books and manuals

kevviiinn 3y ago
it's a very privileged western view that all "third world" countries are destitute and starving
- wil421 3y ago
  > You're not going to be able to do any of that luxurious learning when your stomach is empty and you're having to sleep each night in some war-torn slum. Not sure why your calling out this poster when the OP said the above.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  I feel that's exactly what the op was saying in response to gp? There's a spectrum, and while we should have increased empathy and awareness of a LOT of places in the world where life is spectacularly rough and wildly different than ours (2 years of my childhood were in a civil war and my Canadian wife just cannot fathom any of those experiences), there are indeed a lot of places in the world where knowledge and access and technology are helpful.
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    I was rephrasing the comment I'm replying to in agreement

zamnos 3y ago

For their businesses owners and upper class, I'm pretty sure that sending money abroad to Facebook for advertising or Uber for taxi service doesn't help the situation. Local apps like FoodPanda or Grab at least let the money stay in-country or in-region, instead of off to California. But the level of poverty is unreal. I had multiple hotels charge me a deposit for key card so I'd return it, and breaking large bills (the equivalent to US $20) wasn't something that most shops actually had change for.

wffurr 3y ago

Did you see what this project actually is? It's not a live internet connection. It's a content pack of extremely useful reference materials and such for solving exactly a lot of those problems, with solar power and local wifi. It's a end run around those corrupt bureaucrats. Is it perfect or going to solve everything? Obviously not, but it's cheap, simple, and robust.

kilroy123 3y ago

Very true. It reminds me of the time I visited a remote Ethiopian village. Very poor area, but they seemed fairly self-sufficient. There was a large solar oven given to the village by some NGO. Looks like: https://www.voanews.com/a/south-african-firm-aims-to-supply-millions-with-solar-cookers/1495436.html https://www.voanews.com/a/south-african-firm-aims-to-supply-... You can see it was never used. I asked the guide, do they even use this thing? He laughed and said no. It was basically a decoration piece. What did they use to cook? The wood they go out to collect.

brazzy 3y ago

You're just being contrarian, not more realistic. Which is also a very privileged position. I also suspect that you haven't actually visited many poor countries. Even for extremely poor people, free and easy access to information and communication can have very substantial, practical benefits. A layman's medical encyclopedia that lists smyptoms and treatments for common illnesses may not be an adequate replacement for a trained doctor, but it's a hell of a lot better than nothing. One of the most important factors to enable the "reliable agriculture" you mentioned is access to a good weather forecast. Even one that's only good for the next two days can be a game-changer when it allows you to harvest a crop that might otherwise get spoiled. Another example I've read: access to cell phones massively improved the lives of fishermen in Northern Africa by allowing them to find out in which nearby port the demand for fish is highest. Previously, they'd have to guess and often there would be an oversupply (and thus low prices and fish that goes to waste) in one town, while another twon 20km away had people go hungry because there was too little fish and the prices too high.

bobsmooth 3y ago
It's such a privileged position to be even able to underestimate the importance of knowledge.

MandieD 3y ago

There are billions of people living in situations between the poorest parts of the EU (yet still in better circumstances than the majority of the world) and war-torn starvation in Sudan, and things like this are for them. Plenty of people who can’t afford satellite internet can read just fine. And I, a well-off tech worker in urban Germany, use the project as part of my own emergency communications prep. Internet outages are possible even for rich Europeans and Americans, and we’re awfully dependent on being able to look stuff up.