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Need both. At an individual level, reduce demand for things that create tons of pollution, habitat destruction and increase our carbon footprint, like consumin

Need both. At an individual level, reduce demand for things that create tons of pollution, habitat destruction and increase our carbon footprint, like consuming products from large scale animal agriculture. Use more public transport when possible, fly less, etc Systemic level, pressure our politicians to create policies that will incentivise the top most polluting companies to reduce their carbon footprint and pollution [0] Easier said than done, since big money quasi controls policy making. So I think the future is going to be interesting, I wonder what it means to live in a world that is 2C hotter. [0] https://www.activesustainability.com/climate-change/100-companies-responsible-71-ghg-emissions/ https://www.activesustainability.com/climate-change/100-comp...

doubtmuchx 3y ago
Nope. The individual level leads to defacto tyranny. That will be ridiculed, rebuked and rejected forcefully. Our employees in the government will be told to focus on option one carbon neutral energy and use nuclear power.
- atoav 3y ago
  So rather avoid tyranny and sacrifice the thin habitable egg-shell of an atmosphere we have for the generations to come? I am all personal freedom, which is why I am on the side of doing something against climate change since the 90s. The later we respond the more it will have to affect personal freedoms as well. And it is too late. Ethically you can compare sacrificing a whole planet and it's ecosystems against the personal freedoms of a small subset of people (both in space and time). One of those affects all people and future generations. The other doesn't. It still is a shitty choice, sure and I don't like it. But we are too late to ease into a different mode of living comfortably. You are right that reactance needs to be factored into any crisis managment (especially in democratic systems), this is why I think targeting regulations and manufacturers is better than consumers etc. But there will have to be sacrifices. Is democracy worth more than the survival of the human race? On way for it to survive would be to actually vote for people who do the things that need to be done. Ignoring growing problems comes at a price and someone will have to pay it. If we are not paying it now, the whole planet and our kids will pay it later, with dividends.
- uxcolumbo 3y ago
  Can you explain how encouraging and incentivizing people to decarbonize by choosing better options will lead to defacto tyranny? I don't quite follow. And I said you have to approach this from both ends - system level and individual level.

doubtmuchx 3y ago

Nope. The individual level leads to defacto tyranny. That will be ridiculed, rebuked and rejected forcefully. Our employees in the government will be told to focus on option one carbon neutral energy and use nuclear power.

atoav 3y ago
So rather avoid tyranny and sacrifice the thin habitable egg-shell of an atmosphere we have for the generations to come? I am all personal freedom, which is why I am on the side of doing something against climate change since the 90s. The later we respond the more it will have to affect personal freedoms as well. And it is too late. Ethically you can compare sacrificing a whole planet and it's ecosystems against the personal freedoms of a small subset of people (both in space and time). One of those affects all people and future generations. The other doesn't. It still is a shitty choice, sure and I don't like it. But we are too late to ease into a different mode of living comfortably. You are right that reactance needs to be factored into any crisis managment (especially in democratic systems), this is why I think targeting regulations and manufacturers is better than consumers etc. But there will have to be sacrifices. Is democracy worth more than the survival of the human race? On way for it to survive would be to actually vote for people who do the things that need to be done. Ignoring growing problems comes at a price and someone will have to pay it. If we are not paying it now, the whole planet and our kids will pay it later, with dividends.
uxcolumbo 3y ago
Can you explain how encouraging and incentivizing people to decarbonize by choosing better options will lead to defacto tyranny? I don't quite follow. And I said you have to approach this from both ends - system level and individual level.