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Can someone tell me why they didn't just build a flame diverter and/or a water supression system? From someone who knows nothing about this stuff, these seem l

Can someone tell me why they didn't just build a flame diverter and/or a water supression system? From someone who knows nothing about this stuff, these seem like very simple things to solve given the vast complexity of the rest of the system. And they also don't seem like massively expensive investments. > In a tweet from October 2020, Musk wrote "Aspiring to have no flame diverter in Boca, but this could turn out to be a mistake." Why? What is the aspiration for?

wmf 3y ago
People have been saying that the permits to install a flame trench would have taken years.
- Zigurd 3y ago
  This is a classic project management decision: You discover an expensive to fix issue late in the game. Do you: a) Pick a cheap quick but possibly insufficient solution, or b) Pick a reliable solution that costs so much more time that stuff downstream of your project (Artemis 3 in this case) can't use the results of your project anymore If the quicker fix doesn't, then you are really screwed. You didn't start the slow expensive fix, you have less money, and you may be out of time.
  - wmf 3y ago
    There's evidence that SpaceX is pursuing multiple options in parallel. They already started on some kind of cooling plate before the recent test so now they will probably finish it and use it for the next launch.
coffee-- 3y ago
They are unlikely to launch Starship from Mars with a flame diverter or water suppression system, so determining what they can "get away with" with Raptor is relevant. But obviously 33 of them is different than 6.
Zigurd 3y ago
Starship is intended to span uses ranging from putting huge amounts of stuff, like 40,000 Starlink satellites, each weighing 5X what the first gen satellites weigh, into orbit, and it will go to the Moon and it will ship supplies and people for a Mars colony. And Elon wants it fast. That means anything that would require tearing down and replacing the launch mount is off the table. So, next up is the water cooled steel wedge. You are right that relative to space explorations budgets, a flame trench and a deluge system are small potatoes. But it feels like they are tangled up in sunk costs and a desire to find the fastest solutions.

wmf 3y ago

People have been saying that the permits to install a flame trench would have taken years.

Zigurd 3y ago
This is a classic project management decision: You discover an expensive to fix issue late in the game. Do you: a) Pick a cheap quick but possibly insufficient solution, or b) Pick a reliable solution that costs so much more time that stuff downstream of your project (Artemis 3 in this case) can't use the results of your project anymore If the quicker fix doesn't, then you are really screwed. You didn't start the slow expensive fix, you have less money, and you may be out of time.
- wmf 3y ago
  There's evidence that SpaceX is pursuing multiple options in parallel. They already started on some kind of cooling plate before the recent test so now they will probably finish it and use it for the next launch.

coffee-- 3y ago

They are unlikely to launch Starship from Mars with a flame diverter or water suppression system, so determining what they can "get away with" with Raptor is relevant. But obviously 33 of them is different than 6.

Zigurd 3y ago

Starship is intended to span uses ranging from putting huge amounts of stuff, like 40,000 Starlink satellites, each weighing 5X what the first gen satellites weigh, into orbit, and it will go to the Moon and it will ship supplies and people for a Mars colony. And Elon wants it fast. That means anything that would require tearing down and replacing the launch mount is off the table. So, next up is the water cooled steel wedge. You are right that relative to space explorations budgets, a flame trench and a deluge system are small potatoes. But it feels like they are tangled up in sunk costs and a desire to find the fastest solutions.