4 ms·

We don't tax the rich? What percentage of income taxes do you think the bottom 50% of tax payers pay? What percentage of income taxes do you think the richest

We don't tax the rich? What percentage of income taxes do you think the bottom 50% of tax payers pay? What percentage of income taxes do you think the richest 1% pay? (Answer key: Q1 - 3%, Q2 - 39%) We tax the rich.

peanut_merchant 4y ago
Now reframe the above, normalising as a portion of wealth. Tax analysed in absolute dollar terms is misleading. What should be analysed is the tax's effect on a person's quality of life. A person with a million dollar income paying 50% tax still has 500k to burn. A person paying 30% at 50k a year has 35k left. That 30% means a lot more at the lower end, even though the dollar amount pales in comparison.
- rufus_foreman 4y ago
  Do we tax the rich?
  - effingwewt 4y ago
    Sure we do. Then they hire tax lawyers and use tax havens and end up paying next to nothing. They also don't get audited. Do the rich pay taxes? No. See: rich people asking to be taxed more before 'something bad' happens.
    - rufus_foreman 4y ago
      The top 1% of rich people pay 39% of income taxes. Do rich pay taxes? Yes.
- pfannkuchen 4y ago
  > normalising as a portion of wealth. I don't follow this framing. You are saying we should look at taxes as "how much money does the government allow someone to have"? This seems to assume a government has a right to take an arbitrary amount of money from its citizens. Do you believe this?
  - 3np 4y ago
    Where in the world would that not be the case?
    - pfannkuchen 4y ago
      If you mean practically speaking, everywhere? At some point production incentives are eliminated, leading to quality of life reduction and inevitably revolt or external invasion. Additionally, as government controls a more significant percentage of buying decisions, we shift closer along the spectrum to a command economy which at some point is computationally infeasible, though perhaps ChatGPT will make command economies work finally (mostly kidding).
greenbush 4y ago
Your statements about "percentage of income taxes" are misleading. Two points: 1. Your 3% and 39% actually reflect how much more absolute income the rich generate compared to others. For example, if a rich person has $10 million in income and someone from the bottom 50% person has $100k in income, even a 15% income tax (for example) is $1.5 million and $15k respectively. Given our massive wealth inequality, your 39% income tax number tells us that the top 1% are capturing a massive chunk of the total income generated in the US. A quick quote from a 2021 Forbes article: "billionaires collectively hold two-thirds more wealth than the bottom 50 percent of all households in the United States, according to an analysis by the Institute for Policy Studies." - more wealth generates more absolute income. 2. By focusing solely on income tax, you're ignoring Total Taxes, which for example include sales tax. Low-income Americans face higher payroll tax rates than rich Americans. There are also many more tax-reducing benefits for the poor in our tax code, for example, Long-term capital gains and qualified dividends overwhelmingly accrue to the rich.
Yiin 4y ago
You probably would like to check out how unrealized capital gains work. When you're rich, your wealth doesn't come from "income" in the same way it does for 90% of us.
frickinadorable 4y ago
[flagged]

peanut_merchant 4y ago

Now reframe the above, normalising as a portion of wealth. Tax analysed in absolute dollar terms is misleading. What should be analysed is the tax's effect on a person's quality of life. A person with a million dollar income paying 50% tax still has 500k to burn. A person paying 30% at 50k a year has 35k left. That 30% means a lot more at the lower end, even though the dollar amount pales in comparison.

rufus_foreman 4y ago
Do we tax the rich?
- effingwewt 4y ago
  Sure we do. Then they hire tax lawyers and use tax havens and end up paying next to nothing. They also don't get audited. Do the rich pay taxes? No. See: rich people asking to be taxed more before 'something bad' happens.
  - rufus_foreman 4y ago
    The top 1% of rich people pay 39% of income taxes. Do rich pay taxes? Yes.
pfannkuchen 4y ago
> normalising as a portion of wealth. I don't follow this framing. You are saying we should look at taxes as "how much money does the government allow someone to have"? This seems to assume a government has a right to take an arbitrary amount of money from its citizens. Do you believe this?
- 3np 4y ago
  Where in the world would that not be the case?
  - pfannkuchen 4y ago
    If you mean practically speaking, everywhere? At some point production incentives are eliminated, leading to quality of life reduction and inevitably revolt or external invasion. Additionally, as government controls a more significant percentage of buying decisions, we shift closer along the spectrum to a command economy which at some point is computationally infeasible, though perhaps ChatGPT will make command economies work finally (mostly kidding).

greenbush 4y ago

Your statements about "percentage of income taxes" are misleading. Two points: 1. Your 3% and 39% actually reflect how much more absolute income the rich generate compared to others. For example, if a rich person has $10 million in income and someone from the bottom 50% person has $100k in income, even a 15% income tax (for example) is $1.5 million and $15k respectively. Given our massive wealth inequality, your 39% income tax number tells us that the top 1% are capturing a massive chunk of the total income generated in the US. A quick quote from a 2021 Forbes article: "billionaires collectively hold two-thirds more wealth than the bottom 50 percent of all households in the United States, according to an analysis by the Institute for Policy Studies." - more wealth generates more absolute income. 2. By focusing solely on income tax, you're ignoring Total Taxes, which for example include sales tax. Low-income Americans face higher payroll tax rates than rich Americans. There are also many more tax-reducing benefits for the poor in our tax code, for example, Long-term capital gains and qualified dividends overwhelmingly accrue to the rich.

Yiin 4y ago

You probably would like to check out how unrealized capital gains work. When you're rich, your wealth doesn't come from "income" in the same way it does for 90% of us.

frickinadorable 4y ago

[flagged]