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Once you get down to it, everything in the US seems to be designed to benefit big business / oligarchs. Culture wars topics are intended to distract from things

Once you get down to it, everything in the US seems to be designed to benefit big business / oligarchs. Culture wars topics are intended to distract from things like healthcare, raising the minimum wage, solving the housing crisis in cities, taxing the rich, and so on. They create our pain, then dangle "jobs" as a salve.

ss108 4y ago
I think this line of thinking is unrealistic and rather unempathetic. People on both sides of culture war issues really do care about them. I agree that there are a number of more important issues, but the ordering of political priorities is basically subjective and nobody needs share anyone else's.
- coldtea 4y ago
  >People on both sides of culture war issues really do care about them. That's the goal of every diversion. Sports fans really care about their teams too (in some cases to the point of mass hysteria, or beating other people over them). >but the ordering of political priorities is basically subjective and nobody needs share anyone else's. Not so subjective, since conveniently almost everybody ends up sharing the ordering of one of the two sides they are conditioned to chose among. That's like saying "fashion is subjective" and then seeing 90% of the people wearing the same shit for the season, "mysteriously" the very thing promoted in fashion magazines and celebrity videos and advertised to death 24/7.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  Calling caring "unempathtic" is clearly newspeak. Also, whenever you see only a "both sides" then that's the MSM circus.
rco8786 4y ago
Yea more or less. Things that benefit the standard of living for the population but cut into corporate profits are basically DOA.
- JieJie 4y ago
  From Stage 6: "Winning at psychological warfare isn’t about convincing people to do things they’d never do. It’s about getting them to give up."
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
RobotToaster 4y ago
It isn't a coincidence that most of these culture war topics gained prominence after the occupy movement.
- mikem170 4y ago
  Do you think that was cause and effect? I might assume that terrorism wasn't the "us versus them" issue that it used to be, so culture wars were something new to galavanize the in-group tribe of voters. Or maybe contemporary culture wars came about after Obama was elected, the sense that the majority was loosing it's majority to the minorities. The occupy movement didn't seem to be picked up by either political party, so was it really a threat to anyone in power?
  - Teever 4y ago
    I think that the occupy movement was a domestic threat that genuinely caught them off guard because they were so focused on international threats due to the war on terror. This iteration of the culture wars is an over active response to that threat, which is ironic because the war on terror was a hyper over response itself.
    - 0dayz 4y ago
      I highly doubt occupy wall street was the big deal for the elite. Ironically enough you're kind of adding to the supposed distraction, since occupy wall street didn't accomplish much of anything. Unions forming have caused more of the elite to quiver in their boots than protests.
      - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
        One could just as easily argue that the neutering of the Occupy movement points to it having been a big deal to the elite since they quickly jumped on the identity politics train to atomize the masses.
        4y ago
mrangle 4y ago
Everything in the US is designed to feed you the exact frame of mind that you are reflecting. Which aside from entertainment messaging and your educational curriculum, should be obvious by the fact that its largely the marginal social tier that thinks as you do. To see the edge of the actual discussion: think about the dissonance of a worldview that simultaneously sees the nation's problems to be inherent in enforced hierarchy as mediated by the government, as you state, and the solution to that problem being the same government's enforcement of taxation. There's only room for one of those views in anyone's mind. They cannot logically exist simultaneously. The government will never be simultaneously a marauder and a beneficent tax collector. And nothing changes its stripes. Culture war topics aren't intended to distract from any of the things that you mention. Your list is a litany of topics barely adjacent to the culture war. The culture war is about legal control of people whose natural habits and views would otherwise preclude it. When control has reached its limit working through the channel of temptation, then the only avenue left is the one that legally forces norms that are so distasteful to the natural senses that they oppress most normal people.
- cawest11 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 4y ago
    You can't post like this here, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. I've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- diordiderot 4y ago
  Brevity is the soul of wit
rufus_foreman 4y ago
We don't tax the rich? What percentage of income taxes do you think the bottom 50% of tax payers pay? What percentage of income taxes do you think the richest 1% pay? (Answer key: Q1 - 3%, Q2 - 39%) We tax the rich.
- peanut_merchant 4y ago
  Now reframe the above, normalising as a portion of wealth. Tax analysed in absolute dollar terms is misleading. What should be analysed is the tax's effect on a person's quality of life. A person with a million dollar income paying 50% tax still has 500k to burn. A person paying 30% at 50k a year has 35k left. That 30% means a lot more at the lower end, even though the dollar amount pales in comparison.
  - rufus_foreman 4y ago
    Do we tax the rich?
    - effingwewt 4y ago
      Sure we do. Then they hire tax lawyers and use tax havens and end up paying next to nothing. They also don't get audited. Do the rich pay taxes? No. See: rich people asking to be taxed more before 'something bad' happens.
      - rufus_foreman 4y ago
        The top 1% of rich people pay 39% of income taxes. Do rich pay taxes? Yes.
  - pfannkuchen 4y ago
    > normalising as a portion of wealth. I don't follow this framing. You are saying we should look at taxes as "how much money does the government allow someone to have"? This seems to assume a government has a right to take an arbitrary amount of money from its citizens. Do you believe this?
dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads on generic tangents, especially not ideological battle ones. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35747650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35747650.

ss108 4y ago

I think this line of thinking is unrealistic and rather unempathetic. People on both sides of culture war issues really do care about them. I agree that there are a number of more important issues, but the ordering of political priorities is basically subjective and nobody needs share anyone else's.

coldtea 4y ago
>People on both sides of culture war issues really do care about them. That's the goal of every diversion. Sports fans really care about their teams too (in some cases to the point of mass hysteria, or beating other people over them). >but the ordering of political priorities is basically subjective and nobody needs share anyone else's. Not so subjective, since conveniently almost everybody ends up sharing the ordering of one of the two sides they are conditioned to chose among. That's like saying "fashion is subjective" and then seeing 90% of the people wearing the same shit for the season, "mysteriously" the very thing promoted in fashion magazines and celebrity videos and advertised to death 24/7.
drewcoo 4y ago
Calling caring "unempathtic" is clearly newspeak. Also, whenever you see only a "both sides" then that's the MSM circus.

rco8786 4y ago

Yea more or less. Things that benefit the standard of living for the population but cut into corporate profits are basically DOA.

JieJie 4y ago
From Stage 6: "Winning at psychological warfare isn’t about convincing people to do things they’d never do. It’s about getting them to give up."

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

RobotToaster 4y ago

It isn't a coincidence that most of these culture war topics gained prominence after the occupy movement.

mikem170 4y ago
Do you think that was cause and effect? I might assume that terrorism wasn't the "us versus them" issue that it used to be, so culture wars were something new to galavanize the in-group tribe of voters. Or maybe contemporary culture wars came about after Obama was elected, the sense that the majority was loosing it's majority to the minorities. The occupy movement didn't seem to be picked up by either political party, so was it really a threat to anyone in power?
- Teever 4y ago
  I think that the occupy movement was a domestic threat that genuinely caught them off guard because they were so focused on international threats due to the war on terror. This iteration of the culture wars is an over active response to that threat, which is ironic because the war on terror was a hyper over response itself.
  - 0dayz 4y ago
    I highly doubt occupy wall street was the big deal for the elite. Ironically enough you're kind of adding to the supposed distraction, since occupy wall street didn't accomplish much of anything. Unions forming have caused more of the elite to quiver in their boots than protests.
    - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
      One could just as easily argue that the neutering of the Occupy movement points to it having been a big deal to the elite since they quickly jumped on the identity politics train to atomize the masses.
      - 4y ago

mrangle 4y ago

Everything in the US is designed to feed you the exact frame of mind that you are reflecting. Which aside from entertainment messaging and your educational curriculum, should be obvious by the fact that its largely the marginal social tier that thinks as you do. To see the edge of the actual discussion: think about the dissonance of a worldview that simultaneously sees the nation's problems to be inherent in enforced hierarchy as mediated by the government, as you state, and the solution to that problem being the same government's enforcement of taxation. There's only room for one of those views in anyone's mind. They cannot logically exist simultaneously. The government will never be simultaneously a marauder and a beneficent tax collector. And nothing changes its stripes. Culture war topics aren't intended to distract from any of the things that you mention. Your list is a litany of topics barely adjacent to the culture war. The culture war is about legal control of people whose natural habits and views would otherwise preclude it. When control has reached its limit working through the channel of temptation, then the only avenue left is the one that legally forces norms that are so distasteful to the natural senses that they oppress most normal people.

cawest11 4y ago
[flagged]
- dang 4y ago
  You can't post like this here, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. I've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
diordiderot 4y ago
Brevity is the soul of wit

rufus_foreman 4y ago

We don't tax the rich? What percentage of income taxes do you think the bottom 50% of tax payers pay? What percentage of income taxes do you think the richest 1% pay? (Answer key: Q1 - 3%, Q2 - 39%) We tax the rich.

peanut_merchant 4y ago
Now reframe the above, normalising as a portion of wealth. Tax analysed in absolute dollar terms is misleading. What should be analysed is the tax's effect on a person's quality of life. A person with a million dollar income paying 50% tax still has 500k to burn. A person paying 30% at 50k a year has 35k left. That 30% means a lot more at the lower end, even though the dollar amount pales in comparison.
- rufus_foreman 4y ago
  Do we tax the rich?
  - effingwewt 4y ago
    Sure we do. Then they hire tax lawyers and use tax havens and end up paying next to nothing. They also don't get audited. Do the rich pay taxes? No. See: rich people asking to be taxed more before 'something bad' happens.
    - rufus_foreman 4y ago
      The top 1% of rich people pay 39% of income taxes. Do rich pay taxes? Yes.
- pfannkuchen 4y ago
  > normalising as a portion of wealth. I don't follow this framing. You are saying we should look at taxes as "how much money does the government allow someone to have"? This seems to assume a government has a right to take an arbitrary amount of money from its citizens. Do you believe this?

dang 4y ago

Please don't take HN threads on generic tangents, especially not ideological battle ones. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35747650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35747650.