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> I've had to set up someone's mail server last year. All mails sent to gmail were silently dropped until we set up all the current buzzwords for the domain/ema
by simplotek 3y ago
> I've had to set up someone's mail server last year. All mails sent to gmail were silently dropped until we set up all the current buzzwords for the domain/email server. (...) Possibly we were lucky that "just" setting up SPF DKIM etc fixed it.
SPF and DKIM are nowadays the very basic methods used to verify if your emails are spoofed or not. Not having them in place is as good as setting up a spam farm.
- nottorp 3y agoVery nice, but we were talking about whether google silently drops emails or not. They do: the test emails were never rejected, but never arrived in the test gmail account either. Not in spam, not in all mail, not in the inbox.
- simplotek 3y ago> They do: the test emails were never rejected, but never arrived in the test gmail account either. Not in spam, not in all mail, not in the inbox. And that's fine because that's exactly what SPF/DKIM were designed to do. The spam folder is not a dump of true positives. It's the bucket where you train the filter by evaluating somewhat likely false positives.
- nottorp 3y agoWhat happened to rejection codes? I believe they're still defined somewhere in the SMTP standard? Or Google should be exempt from returning errors?
- Avamander 3y agoYou have to understand that telling the spammers each and every detail is simply not viable. So you're gonna end up with situations where lazy/uninformed postmasters get caught in-between, sucks but unavoidable.
- nottorp 3y agoYou see it as lazy and uninformed, I see it as a barrier to entry enforced by a near monopoly.
- Avamander 3y agoEach market has barriers of entry, blame the market. It's far from a near monopoly.
- pseudalopex 3y agoYou have to understand a rejection is not telling every detail. And diligent postmasters have observed Google and Microsoft drop email from low volume senders with faultless configuration and reputation.
- Avamander 3y agoSometimes it's too much info to give out. You want to accept phish/malware and silently drop it so that the bad actors don't know you've detected it. A perfect technical configuration doesn't make you inherently trustworthy or provide you with faultless reputation.
- pseudalopex 3y ago> Sometimes it's too much info to give out. You want to accept phish/malware and silently drop it so that the bad actors don't know you've detected it. Users' interests are served by being informed when this happens. And plain text correspondence is not easily mistaken for malware. > A perfect technical configuration doesn't make you inherently trustworthy or provide you with faultless reputation. No one claimed such.
- MereInterest 3y ago> The spam folder is not a dump of true positives. That's exactly what it should be. If somebody sends me an email, it should arrive somewhere that I can see. If that means needing tiers of spam folders, each one spammier than the last, then so be it.
- denton-scratch 3y ago> All mails sent to gmail were silently dropped This used to be a cardinal sin for mailserver operators; mail should always either be delivered, or result in a non-delivery notification ("bounce"). Dropping mail on the floor was a no-no. Then along came gmail...
- account42 3y agoBounces didn't become haram because of gmail but because of backscatter spam. You can still reject the mails at submission time but that changes where you have to run your spam filter.