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They're being forced to do it. The natural market for EVs is a maximum of 20%. The cost/benefit is only positive for certain use cases. Ford can't sell its Li

by fwungy 4y ago

They're being forced to do it. The natural market for EVs is a maximum of 20%. The cost/benefit is only positive for certain use cases. Ford can't sell its Lightning F150 EVs. They just had a fire on one of the holding lots too that burned a bunch of them down. I guess they'll have to take the insurance. Fun fact about EV fires: they're a chemical reaction, not an ordinary fire. Removing the oxygen source like you would with an ICE fire doesn't work.

robertlagrant 4y ago
Do people normally remove the oxygen source with ICE fires? Wouldn't that be...the atmosphere?
- sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
  The problem is the battery has everything it needs to burn already inside its chemistry. It doesn't need the atmosphere to supply oxygen.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    I understand. That wasn't what I was asking about.
- fwungy 4y ago
  When a lithium-ion battery catches fire, it can be very hard to extinguish and can burn very fiercely³. If a battery is going to catch fire, the likely cause is thermal runaway¹. This is when a battery experiences an increase in temperature that eventually leads to cell short-circuiting or disintegration that can spark a fire¹. There are three main abuse factors that can send a battery into thermal runaway — mechanical, thermal or electrical¹. The contents of the battery are under pressure, so if a metal fragment punctures a partition that keeps the components separate or the battery is punctured, the lithium reacts with water in the air vigorously, generating high heat and sometimes producing a fire². (1) What are the lithium-ion-battery fire risks & safety issues?. https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/battery-fire-lithium-ion/ https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/battery-fire-lithium-i.... (2) Just how concerned should the solar industry be about battery fires?. https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2020/02/just-how-concerned-should-the-solar-industry-be-about-battery-fires/ https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2020/02/just-how-conce.... (3) Why Lithium Batteries Catch Fire - ThoughtCo. https://www.thoughtco.com/why-lithium-batteries-catch-fire-606814 https://www.thoughtco.com/why-lithium-batteries-catch-fire-6.... (4) Can Batteries Catch On Fire? Do They Ever Explode? - Firefighter Insider. https://firefighterinsider.com/batteries-catch-fire-or-explode/ https://firefighterinsider.com/batteries-catch-fire-or-explo.... (5) Lithium Battery Fires: How to Spot the Warning Signs. https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/lithium-battery-fires https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/lithium-battery-fires.
cesarb 4y ago
> Fun fact about EV fires: they're a chemical reaction, not an ordinary fire. Aren't all ordinary fires a chemical reaction?
- fwungy 4y ago
  A chemical is a compound that has been purposefully refined or purified. A chemical fire is far more complex and potentially dangerous than a normal fire. Gasoline is a chemical, however we have a lot of experience dealing with gasoline driven fires and they can be easily doused with water. Large battery driven fires in vehicles are a new thing, and they are not easily doused with water.
panick21_ 3y ago
> The natural market for EVs is a maximum of 20%. And yet countries in Europe have already higher then 20% of new car sales being EV and some of them without subsidies. Ford can actually sell its F150. And lots of version of F150 and other trucks had issues that stopped production line. Its utterly irrelevant in terms of the EV debate. > Fun fact about EV fires Your not exactly breaking news here.

by fwungy 4y ago

robertlagrant 4y ago

Do people normally remove the oxygen source with ICE fires? Wouldn't that be...the atmosphere?

sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
The problem is the battery has everything it needs to burn already inside its chemistry. It doesn't need the atmosphere to supply oxygen.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  I understand. That wasn't what I was asking about.
fwungy 4y ago
When a lithium-ion battery catches fire, it can be very hard to extinguish and can burn very fiercely³. If a battery is going to catch fire, the likely cause is thermal runaway¹. This is when a battery experiences an increase in temperature that eventually leads to cell short-circuiting or disintegration that can spark a fire¹. There are three main abuse factors that can send a battery into thermal runaway — mechanical, thermal or electrical¹. The contents of the battery are under pressure, so if a metal fragment punctures a partition that keeps the components separate or the battery is punctured, the lithium reacts with water in the air vigorously, generating high heat and sometimes producing a fire². (1) What are the lithium-ion-battery fire risks & safety issues?. https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/battery-fire-lithium-ion/ https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/battery-fire-lithium-i.... (2) Just how concerned should the solar industry be about battery fires?. https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2020/02/just-how-concerned-should-the-solar-industry-be-about-battery-fires/ https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2020/02/just-how-conce.... (3) Why Lithium Batteries Catch Fire - ThoughtCo. https://www.thoughtco.com/why-lithium-batteries-catch-fire-606814 https://www.thoughtco.com/why-lithium-batteries-catch-fire-6.... (4) Can Batteries Catch On Fire? Do They Ever Explode? - Firefighter Insider. https://firefighterinsider.com/batteries-catch-fire-or-explode/ https://firefighterinsider.com/batteries-catch-fire-or-explo.... (5) Lithium Battery Fires: How to Spot the Warning Signs. https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/lithium-battery-fires https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/lithium-battery-fires.

cesarb 4y ago

> Fun fact about EV fires: they're a chemical reaction, not an ordinary fire. Aren't all ordinary fires a chemical reaction?

fwungy 4y ago
A chemical is a compound that has been purposefully refined or purified. A chemical fire is far more complex and potentially dangerous than a normal fire. Gasoline is a chemical, however we have a lot of experience dealing with gasoline driven fires and they can be easily doused with water. Large battery driven fires in vehicles are a new thing, and they are not easily doused with water.

panick21_ 3y ago

> The natural market for EVs is a maximum of 20%. And yet countries in Europe have already higher then 20% of new car sales being EV and some of them without subsidies. Ford can actually sell its F150. And lots of version of F150 and other trucks had issues that stopped production line. Its utterly irrelevant in terms of the EV debate. > Fun fact about EV fires Your not exactly breaking news here.