5 ms·

Domestic disputes are one of the most likely calls to result in an injury to or death of an officer. I sure wouldn't want to show up to a couple fighting in a b

Domestic disputes are one of the most likely calls to result in an injury to or death of an officer. I sure wouldn't want to show up to a couple fighting in a bad neighborhood without backup and guns because some suburbanite is squeamish about violence. Especially for like $50k a year or less.

smcin 3y ago
> Domestic disputes are one of the most likely calls to result in an injury to or death of an officer. I don't see that the FBI stats support that claim, and even if, the rate is still comparatively low, and skews very heavily towards the US South (which is only 38% of the population, but has very high gun ownership and gun violence rates): Police officers' risk of on-the-job death in most years averages #14 .. #18, behind logging, fishing, farming, construction, heavy manufacturing, trucking [0]. From the 2021 data ('FBI LEOKA') [1] for on-the-job police officer deaths reported by 7886 LE agencies: • 73 were Feloniously killed (only 7 total in responding to all disorders/disturbances (e.g., disorderly subjects, fights, domestic disturbances/violence)) - 61 of those 73 were killed by firearms - 44 of those 73 were in the South • plus 56 Accidental deaths (32 of which were crashes). (If we check individual case reports at [2], we can see how many of the 7 total responding to disorders/disturbances were Domestic.) • Assaults: [3] 43,649 officers assaulted in 2021 - 28.6% (12,463) occurred while officers responded to [all] disturbance calls - 35% sustained injuries - 49.5% occurred in the South And for 2022, FBI releases preliminary LEOKA statistics for 2022 to October [4]. The latest years for which I can easily find all the detailed LEOKA Tables are 1996..2019 [5] e.g. Table 24: "Circumstances encountered by victim officer upon arrival at the scene of the incident". [0]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/workplace-fatalities-25-most-dangerous-jobs-america/1002500001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/work... [1]: https://leb.fbi.gov/bulletin-highlights/additional-highlights/crime-data-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty-statistics-for-2021 https://leb.fbi.gov/bulletin-highlights/additional-highlight... [2]: Comprehensive data tables about these events and brief narratives describing the fatal attacks are available on the Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted (LEOKA) portion of the FBI’s Crime Data Explorer at https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/ https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/ [3]: https://leb.fbi.gov/bulletin-highlights/additional-highlights/crime-data-law-enforcement-officers-assaulted-in-2021 https://leb.fbi.gov/bulletin-highlights/additional-highlight... [4]: https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/fbi-releases-preliminary-leoka-statistics-for-2022-to-date-tGFpAwH9DMNje0cF/ https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/fbi-releases... [5]: https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2019/topic-pages/officers-feloniously-killed https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2019/topic-pages/officers-feloniou...
- injb 3y ago
  >>> Police officers' risk of on-the-job death in most years averages #14 .. #18, behind logging, fishing, farming, construction, heavy manufacturing, trucking The difference is that everyone who works on those jobs has roughly the same risk. A cop who has to respond to a disturbance in a bad area is fat more at risk than someone in the crime lab or the evidence room. If you look at the risk of injury to cops who are out on patrol all day, it's more dangerous.
  - smcin 3y ago
    Sure but can you cite or estimate more accurate stats? I read ~68% of officers do patrol, so as a decent approximation that's most of them. I take your point about cities/areas/zipcodes/states. To me one pattern that keeps jumping out is that the South (LA, MS, GA, TN) has incredible levels of (gun) violence. Ideally we could quote police officer injury and death rates, per-capita population, by region, by circumstances of incident.
    - injb 3y ago
      >>> can you cite or estimate more accurate stats? No, sorry. But I don't know if the stats would fully capture what I think the difference is. Like, I remember a case of a cop who shot a teenager who was running away from him in an alley way at night. I think he had been armed but threw the gun away, not sure now. But the discussion about these incidents usually lead to the stats about how being a cop is not that dangerous in aggregate. That may be be true, but the distribution of danger is very peaky for cops and it's not just a question of whether they are patrol cops, but its also a question of the circumstances they're in in a given moment (which I didn't really mention in my previous post). If you're called to investigate a group of armed young men in an alleyway at night, and you end up chasing one of them in the darkness, alone, you are in far more danger than the stats would imply. From brief searching & skimming, I'm seeing that US police kill around 1000 people per year, while around 250 cops are shot. I deliberately compare shot to killed because police are usually far more accurate and effective at shooting than the average criminal. Needless to say this doesn't include all the time that police are shot at or attacked with other weapons that would justify shooting. So while yes they are not in as much danger generally as the people who attack them, it's certainly not a trivial amount of danger either.
adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
especially because there's a pretty high chance that the abuser is another cop.

smcin 3y ago

> Domestic disputes are one of the most likely calls to result in an injury to or death of an officer. I don't see that the FBI stats support that claim, and even if, the rate is still comparatively low, and skews very heavily towards the US South (which is only 38% of the population, but has very high gun ownership and gun violence rates): Police officers' risk of on-the-job death in most years averages #14 .. #18, behind logging, fishing, farming, construction, heavy manufacturing, trucking [0]. From the 2021 data ('FBI LEOKA') [1] for on-the-job police officer deaths reported by 7886 LE agencies: • 73 were Feloniously killed (only 7 total in responding to all disorders/disturbances (e.g., disorderly subjects, fights, domestic disturbances/violence)) - 61 of those 73 were killed by firearms - 44 of those 73 were in the South • plus 56 Accidental deaths (32 of which were crashes). (If we check individual case reports at [2], we can see how many of the 7 total responding to disorders/disturbances were Domestic.) • Assaults: [3] 43,649 officers assaulted in 2021 - 28.6% (12,463) occurred while officers responded to [all] disturbance calls - 35% sustained injuries - 49.5% occurred in the South And for 2022, FBI releases preliminary LEOKA statistics for 2022 to October [4]. The latest years for which I can easily find all the detailed LEOKA Tables are 1996..2019 [5] e.g. Table 24: "Circumstances encountered by victim officer upon arrival at the scene of the incident". [0]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/workplace-fatalities-25-most-dangerous-jobs-america/1002500001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/work... [1]: https://leb.fbi.gov/bulletin-highlights/additional-highlights/crime-data-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty-statistics-for-2021 https://leb.fbi.gov/bulletin-highlights/additional-highlight... [2]: Comprehensive data tables about these events and brief narratives describing the fatal attacks are available on the Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted (LEOKA) portion of the FBI’s Crime Data Explorer at https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/ https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/ [3]: https://leb.fbi.gov/bulletin-highlights/additional-highlights/crime-data-law-enforcement-officers-assaulted-in-2021 https://leb.fbi.gov/bulletin-highlights/additional-highlight... [4]: https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/fbi-releases-preliminary-leoka-statistics-for-2022-to-date-tGFpAwH9DMNje0cF/ https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/fbi-releases... [5]: https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2019/topic-pages/officers-feloniously-killed https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2019/topic-pages/officers-feloniou...

injb 3y ago
>>> Police officers' risk of on-the-job death in most years averages #14 .. #18, behind logging, fishing, farming, construction, heavy manufacturing, trucking The difference is that everyone who works on those jobs has roughly the same risk. A cop who has to respond to a disturbance in a bad area is fat more at risk than someone in the crime lab or the evidence room. If you look at the risk of injury to cops who are out on patrol all day, it's more dangerous.
- smcin 3y ago
  Sure but can you cite or estimate more accurate stats? I read ~68% of officers do patrol, so as a decent approximation that's most of them. I take your point about cities/areas/zipcodes/states. To me one pattern that keeps jumping out is that the South (LA, MS, GA, TN) has incredible levels of (gun) violence. Ideally we could quote police officer injury and death rates, per-capita population, by region, by circumstances of incident.
  - injb 3y ago
    >>> can you cite or estimate more accurate stats? No, sorry. But I don't know if the stats would fully capture what I think the difference is. Like, I remember a case of a cop who shot a teenager who was running away from him in an alley way at night. I think he had been armed but threw the gun away, not sure now. But the discussion about these incidents usually lead to the stats about how being a cop is not that dangerous in aggregate. That may be be true, but the distribution of danger is very peaky for cops and it's not just a question of whether they are patrol cops, but its also a question of the circumstances they're in in a given moment (which I didn't really mention in my previous post). If you're called to investigate a group of armed young men in an alleyway at night, and you end up chasing one of them in the darkness, alone, you are in far more danger than the stats would imply. From brief searching & skimming, I'm seeing that US police kill around 1000 people per year, while around 250 cops are shot. I deliberately compare shot to killed because police are usually far more accurate and effective at shooting than the average criminal. Needless to say this doesn't include all the time that police are shot at or attacked with other weapons that would justify shooting. So while yes they are not in as much danger generally as the people who attack them, it's certainly not a trivial amount of danger either.

adgjlsfhk1 3y ago

especially because there's a pretty high chance that the abuser is another cop.