7 ms·

People want pills or miracle diets. People don't want lifestyle changes. They're busy, stressed, strapped for cash, and anyway they like the standard American d

People want pills or miracle diets. People don't want lifestyle changes. They're busy, stressed, strapped for cash, and anyway they like the standard American diet. Collectively, we could shape our environment so healthy decisions are easier and unhealthy choices are harder, but we can't even agree to tax sugar. So we won't make policy changes anytime soon, and individually many of us will fail to make healthier choices. What more is there to say?

asdfman123 3y ago
As a doctor it's your job to give your patient something that will treat them. You can't tell someone "if you exercise an hour a day, your problem will go away" because at least 9/10 people won't do it.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I expect my doctor to give me the best medical care. If that's telling me to make a lifestyle change, that's what I want (whether I follow his advice is an independent issue). I 100% don't want a doctor to give me medication that isn't necessary.
  - asdfman123 3y ago
    I’ll tell you what your doctor might not be telling you: - 30 minutes of cardio, 3x a week is a bare minimum. The more cardio the better, so consider endurance sports. - Resistance training is necessary too, and can be done at home with no equipment - Get at least 10 minutes of sunlight right after you get up or right after the sun comes rises, even if it’s cloudy, if possible - Don’t drink more than 2 drinks in a day - Try to reduce stress as much as possible - Get plenty of sleep - Cut out digital distractions - In general try to eat as many natural foods as you can, especially more fruits and vegetables. Avoid eating chemicals if you can, hydrogenated oils, etc. Now you’ve heard it, as well as everyone else reading this thread. It’s up to you to do it. But odds are, for the most part, you’ve heard it before and don’t need reminding. If you’re confused about any of the details on this list, you are all people who are in the top quartile (at least) in learning things on the internet, and can figure the rest out yourselves.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      Of course I've heard it. As you said, the odds are excellent that everyone reading this has heard it too. And I actually do all of that. Not because anyone told me to, or because I should, but because that's just how my life ended up being arranged. Not sure how that's related to my point, though.
      - asdfman123 3y ago
        Just that everyone's heard it, so the doctor isn't going to repeat it to you with every visit. I think a doctor absolutely should gently remind people that those things improve a variety of conditions, and occasionally push a little harder in certain situations (you need to start doing X now or your condition is going to be a big problem). Many of them already do, of course.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        Sure, a doctor isn't necessarily going to give generic health advice on every visit. That wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying is that if I go see a doctor for a condition, and the proper way to resolve that condition is to make a lifestyle change, then that is what I want the doctor to tell me. What I don't want the doctor to do is to just give me a prescription if the actual treatment is to behave differently in some way.
        asdfman123 3y ago
        But difficult to treat chronic conditions aren’t that straightforward, and virtually all of them respond to general good health as outlined on that list. Everything else is either a straightforward treatment, is untreatable, or has a lifestyle change that the doctor will tell you about (like with IBS and a low FODMAP diet for instance).
        JohnFen 3y ago
        I agree. That isn't counter to what I was saying at all.
- omginternets 3y ago
  If they don’t take the pills, are you also supposed not to prescribe them? Patients refuse treatment all the time. I’m not so sure it ought to be a doctor’s job to cater to the patient’s every whim.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - dismantlethesun 3y ago
    Actually yes. If the patient refuses treatment you do not give them a prescription they is useless but rather tell them of an alternative if one exists. If none exists then tell them that. In the end, it’s the patients right to have the treatment they want and can afford so long as it’s efficacious.
badpun 3y ago
[flagged]
- aschearer 3y ago
  How puritanical. Do you look down on everyone or just unhealthy people?
  - badpun 3y ago
    I'm the same. It's just human nature to not want to expend effort. We love excuses, like - I'm too stressed, to busy etc. - but quite often, they're just that - convenient excuses.
    - ElevenLathe 3y ago
      All humans in environment A get fat, develop heart disease, and are depressed. All humans in environment B are lean, live long lives without medication, and are happy. The only logical conclusion: everyone in environment A is lazy or otherwise morally deficient.
      - SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
        Maybe it's all the beef from those spherical cows they're eating
      - tintedfireglass 3y ago
        everyone in environment A is lazy and morally deficient because environment A promotes laziness and is in itself morally deficient.
      - badpun 3y ago
        > All humans in environment A get fat, develop heart disease, and are depressed There's plenty of non-obese people in the world.
        3y ago
eli_gottlieb 3y ago
>People want pills or miracle diets. People don't want lifestyle changes. How you gonna make lifestyle changes without permission from your lords and masters who write your paychecks?
- aschearer 3y ago
  LOL what? Where did all this "lords and peasant" nonsense come from? Come back to reality, Eli.
  - eli_gottlieb 3y ago
    I'm being real. Lots of people work 10-12 hours a day. How are they supposed to shop and cook for only fresh and healthy food, as well as do 30 minutes of rigorous cardio per day, in the remaining four hours a day when they're not asleep? What if they have family obligations?
    - brnaftr361 3y ago
      My experience was that I was scheduled 12 hours a day, the reality is that we all commuted 1h both ways and turnover often took 30-45 minutes. We were bussed in, and we arrived 15-20 minutes early. To put the final little bit in, we also had to commute to the bus depot. Whatever extraneous time I had was spent in the shower. While I did manage to eat decently I also had the benefit of years of working in kitchens and I opted for vegetarianism years prior so I had to delve into a novel culinary discipline which served to broaden my horizons both in what I considered a meal, and what I was willing to eat, and how I was willing to eat. Looking at the rest of the cohort: yeah, it was bad. A lot of industries we interfaced with had a lot of very evident cases of poor diet. I expect among the whole the chronically single and childless were the few that could manage their health in the context of that schedule or any modern American regime, really. Beyond diet it's physically taxing, especially considering that my industry, and every industry touching it worked some variation of swing shifts and if not that, 24/7 on-call. That alone is extremely taxing and has prolific long-term implications. Alcohol and drug abuse are commonplace, whether licit or illicit substances. And there's a huge emotional layer to it as well, if that isn't obvious. Mind you these are the people paid by the companies that keep your lights and heat on, transport all your food and fuel... But even outside of that extreme edge case the other jobs I've had can have their own sets of challenges. It's not always overeating that gets you, but undereating is a hazard as well. And workplace injuries are not so avoidable as the institutions like to profess. If you're pressured, your peers are pressured, your customers are pressured, etc... the culture itself becomes go fast or die trying — they'll tell you to work safe but God forbid if you do you'll be punished for it, ask me how I know. And that's without factoring in RSIs, which in some occupations are virtually inextricable.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dantheman 3y ago
Sugar is taxed, it's why we have hi-fructose corn-syrup.
- robotnikman 3y ago
  Which is arguably even worse than sugar for you
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  Sugar is taxed only in a few localities, but is subsidized federally.
- lr4444lr 3y ago
  More that corn is subsidized.
escapedmoose 3y ago
I used this same reply elsewhere, but it’s relevant here as well: Diet/sleep/exercise/sunlight are always the first step, and if you don’t at least get those, you’ll be hard-pressed to feel decent no matter what else you do, regardless of whether you have other medication-dependent conditions. That said, there are way too many people out there who have no experience with conditions which require medication, who seem to think that those things are a substitute for medication rather than a baseline that must be kept up alongside medication. I’m no psychologist, but I tend to assume that a driver to thinking this way might be the sense of safety that comes with self-righteousness. Similar to victim-blaming in crimes, where people pick at the personal faults of crime victims (however slight) in order to reassure themselves that a similar thing couldn’t happen to them. Imo it’s a coping mechanism for a world where long-term suffering can be brought on totally at random.

asdfman123 3y ago

As a doctor it's your job to give your patient something that will treat them. You can't tell someone "if you exercise an hour a day, your problem will go away" because at least 9/10 people won't do it.

JohnFen 3y ago
I expect my doctor to give me the best medical care. If that's telling me to make a lifestyle change, that's what I want (whether I follow his advice is an independent issue). I 100% don't want a doctor to give me medication that isn't necessary.
- asdfman123 3y ago
  I’ll tell you what your doctor might not be telling you: - 30 minutes of cardio, 3x a week is a bare minimum. The more cardio the better, so consider endurance sports. - Resistance training is necessary too, and can be done at home with no equipment - Get at least 10 minutes of sunlight right after you get up or right after the sun comes rises, even if it’s cloudy, if possible - Don’t drink more than 2 drinks in a day - Try to reduce stress as much as possible - Get plenty of sleep - Cut out digital distractions - In general try to eat as many natural foods as you can, especially more fruits and vegetables. Avoid eating chemicals if you can, hydrogenated oils, etc. Now you’ve heard it, as well as everyone else reading this thread. It’s up to you to do it. But odds are, for the most part, you’ve heard it before and don’t need reminding. If you’re confused about any of the details on this list, you are all people who are in the top quartile (at least) in learning things on the internet, and can figure the rest out yourselves.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Of course I've heard it. As you said, the odds are excellent that everyone reading this has heard it too. And I actually do all of that. Not because anyone told me to, or because I should, but because that's just how my life ended up being arranged. Not sure how that's related to my point, though.
    - asdfman123 3y ago
      Just that everyone's heard it, so the doctor isn't going to repeat it to you with every visit. I think a doctor absolutely should gently remind people that those things improve a variety of conditions, and occasionally push a little harder in certain situations (you need to start doing X now or your condition is going to be a big problem). Many of them already do, of course.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        Sure, a doctor isn't necessarily going to give generic health advice on every visit. That wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying is that if I go see a doctor for a condition, and the proper way to resolve that condition is to make a lifestyle change, then that is what I want the doctor to tell me. What I don't want the doctor to do is to just give me a prescription if the actual treatment is to behave differently in some way.
        asdfman123 3y ago
        But difficult to treat chronic conditions aren’t that straightforward, and virtually all of them respond to general good health as outlined on that list. Everything else is either a straightforward treatment, is untreatable, or has a lifestyle change that the doctor will tell you about (like with IBS and a low FODMAP diet for instance).
        JohnFen 3y ago
        I agree. That isn't counter to what I was saying at all.
omginternets 3y ago
If they don’t take the pills, are you also supposed not to prescribe them? Patients refuse treatment all the time. I’m not so sure it ought to be a doctor’s job to cater to the patient’s every whim.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dismantlethesun 3y ago
  Actually yes. If the patient refuses treatment you do not give them a prescription they is useless but rather tell them of an alternative if one exists. If none exists then tell them that. In the end, it’s the patients right to have the treatment they want and can afford so long as it’s efficacious.

badpun 3y ago

[flagged]

aschearer 3y ago
How puritanical. Do you look down on everyone or just unhealthy people?
- badpun 3y ago
  I'm the same. It's just human nature to not want to expend effort. We love excuses, like - I'm too stressed, to busy etc. - but quite often, they're just that - convenient excuses.
  - ElevenLathe 3y ago
    All humans in environment A get fat, develop heart disease, and are depressed. All humans in environment B are lean, live long lives without medication, and are happy. The only logical conclusion: everyone in environment A is lazy or otherwise morally deficient.
    - SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
      Maybe it's all the beef from those spherical cows they're eating
    - tintedfireglass 3y ago
      everyone in environment A is lazy and morally deficient because environment A promotes laziness and is in itself morally deficient.
    - badpun 3y ago
      > All humans in environment A get fat, develop heart disease, and are depressed There's plenty of non-obese people in the world.
      - 3y ago

eli_gottlieb 3y ago

>People want pills or miracle diets. People don't want lifestyle changes. How you gonna make lifestyle changes without permission from your lords and masters who write your paychecks?

aschearer 3y ago
LOL what? Where did all this "lords and peasant" nonsense come from? Come back to reality, Eli.
- eli_gottlieb 3y ago
  I'm being real. Lots of people work 10-12 hours a day. How are they supposed to shop and cook for only fresh and healthy food, as well as do 30 minutes of rigorous cardio per day, in the remaining four hours a day when they're not asleep? What if they have family obligations?
  - brnaftr361 3y ago
    My experience was that I was scheduled 12 hours a day, the reality is that we all commuted 1h both ways and turnover often took 30-45 minutes. We were bussed in, and we arrived 15-20 minutes early. To put the final little bit in, we also had to commute to the bus depot. Whatever extraneous time I had was spent in the shower. While I did manage to eat decently I also had the benefit of years of working in kitchens and I opted for vegetarianism years prior so I had to delve into a novel culinary discipline which served to broaden my horizons both in what I considered a meal, and what I was willing to eat, and how I was willing to eat. Looking at the rest of the cohort: yeah, it was bad. A lot of industries we interfaced with had a lot of very evident cases of poor diet. I expect among the whole the chronically single and childless were the few that could manage their health in the context of that schedule or any modern American regime, really. Beyond diet it's physically taxing, especially considering that my industry, and every industry touching it worked some variation of swing shifts and if not that, 24/7 on-call. That alone is extremely taxing and has prolific long-term implications. Alcohol and drug abuse are commonplace, whether licit or illicit substances. And there's a huge emotional layer to it as well, if that isn't obvious. Mind you these are the people paid by the companies that keep your lights and heat on, transport all your food and fuel... But even outside of that extreme edge case the other jobs I've had can have their own sets of challenges. It's not always overeating that gets you, but undereating is a hazard as well. And workplace injuries are not so avoidable as the institutions like to profess. If you're pressured, your peers are pressured, your customers are pressured, etc... the culture itself becomes go fast or die trying — they'll tell you to work safe but God forbid if you do you'll be punished for it, ask me how I know. And that's without factoring in RSIs, which in some occupations are virtually inextricable.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dantheman 3y ago

Sugar is taxed, it's why we have hi-fructose corn-syrup.

robotnikman 3y ago
Which is arguably even worse than sugar for you
amanaplanacanal 3y ago
Sugar is taxed only in a few localities, but is subsidized federally.
lr4444lr 3y ago
More that corn is subsidized.

escapedmoose 3y ago

I used this same reply elsewhere, but it’s relevant here as well: Diet/sleep/exercise/sunlight are always the first step, and if you don’t at least get those, you’ll be hard-pressed to feel decent no matter what else you do, regardless of whether you have other medication-dependent conditions. That said, there are way too many people out there who have no experience with conditions which require medication, who seem to think that those things are a substitute for medication rather than a baseline that must be kept up alongside medication. I’m no psychologist, but I tend to assume that a driver to thinking this way might be the sense of safety that comes with self-righteousness. Similar to victim-blaming in crimes, where people pick at the personal faults of crime victims (however slight) in order to reassure themselves that a similar thing couldn’t happen to them. Imo it’s a coping mechanism for a world where long-term suffering can be brought on totally at random.