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F*ck. Im part of a subreddit right now that seems to be under siege by a heavy number of bots or human-bots. All I can tell is they post everyday on the same t

F*ck. Im part of a subreddit right now that seems to be under siege by a heavy number of bots or human-bots. All I can tell is they post everyday on the same topic (politics) then they themselves cross post and post under their own thread with constant incendiary commentary. The big tell seems to be they post at least 75 comments a day and never appear to sleep. They only post about politics and only in this subreddit and always with the same bent. How can I tell if these people are even real?

k__ 4y ago
Proof of Humanity Worldcoin Gitcoin Passport
- catchnear4321 4y ago
  Papers, please
intelVISA 4y ago
Verify with a gov't issued ID e.g. IMEI/IMSI, ATPO
- catchnear4321 4y ago
  do you think most companies know how to securely store and transfer data? do you want them storing and transferring your identification papers?
  - grumbel 4y ago
    They don't have to store it, they can delete it after account creation or just keep a hash in case they want to avoid account farming. Youtube is already collecting IDs in the EU if you want to view age-restricted content. Some countries also have ID cards that allow you to digitally prove you are 18 without revealing your ID, maybe that could be used for proving you're human as well (don't know if there is a way to prevent farming here).
    - catchnear4321 4y ago
      so the counter-argument is they only have to know how to securely transfer and delete it. which is very similar to securely transferring and storing it. in terms of required competency. and existing identification requirements don’t lessen the ask. lest wearing identification visibly at all times become the norm. at that point there isn’t an ask.
      - Spivak 4y ago
        Are we living in bizarro world here? This is not some crazy ask and what happens billions of times on Reddit with passwords. There are even 3rd party services that will verify IDs via API and you never even see the data.
        catchnear4321 4y ago
        now government ids are just passwords? and it shouldn’t matter as much if it’s an extra participant in the conversation?
- rob74 4y ago
  That would be the end of Reddit though - or of any other social network that got this restrictive. Unless governments mandated it (which will probably be the end result of all this - no more anonymity on the Internet).
  - intelVISA 4y ago
    Discord is decently popular in spite of requiring a phone number for their metadata collation service (/science endpoint)
    - flangola7 4y ago
      Discord only requires a phone number on servers that have it turned on as a requirement
- pixl97 4y ago
  So what do you do when when of your verified posters unintentionally says their trans, then you get a warrant for all their information?
- gruez 4y ago
  > Verify with a gov't issued ID e.g. IMEI/IMSI, ATPO I have no idea what ATPO is supposed to be, but IMEI/IMSI[1] is definitely not an government issued ID. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment_Identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment...
- imachine1980_ 4y ago
  so you are magin critical information of people include eu...
dghughes 4y ago
Just keep asking "why" over and over. A human will get annoyed a bot will not.
- gooob 4y ago
  oh how naive you are
  - dghughes 4y ago
    Why?
- Paul-Craft 4y ago
  Annoying humans is a good way to get them to not want to post in your subreddit, or so I hear.
waboremo 4y ago
There are a couple subs I believe that try to track bots. I say try because they don't exactly do any profound research due to most bots telling on themselves. But you get to see what patterns emerge from these bots: usernames are a big tell, a lot of them seem to be relying on the same script to generate usernames (probably pulled from the first reddit account creator repo they could find), and they repeat themselves a lot even if some nouns are changed (again indicating very primitive understanding of scripts). Another really huge tell, that only works if you're actively on reddit when it happens, is they reply to your comment instantly[1]. It also seems some are using these bots to change course of a subreddit [2], where they are upvoting/downvoting on mass (evading Reddit's usual bot trappings, which IIRC mostly stem from IP?). It's going to be very very interesting to see how easier access to bots is going to affect a lot of social sites. There are two funny things about this entire situation: A) by attempting to call out these bots in some subs, you'll be warned/banned for brigading or being uncivil, and B) some subs have tried to be proactive about the situation but wound up being chastised[3] for various reasons like relying on AI detection tooling which produces a lot of false positives, and a general nonchalance as long as bots "post quality". So basically, outside of external verification and pattern matching, you can't. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/TheseFuckingAccounts/comments/12ssfdq/wow_its_another_amazing_ai_bot_allowing_us_to_see/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheseFuckingAccounts/comments/12ssf... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/botwatch/comments/125iurb/me_and_others_downvoted_for_calling_out_the_spam/ https://www.reddit.com/r/botwatch/comments/125iurb/me_and_ot... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/11vw6qp/posting_aiwritten_content_will_result_in_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/11vw6qp/post...
- circuit10 4y ago
  I was one of the people who said that using AI detection is a bad idea on that last link. Really, those AI detection tools are extremely unreliable and it’s a bad idea to use them for anything import like moderation decisions. I’m not against trying to stop bots or anything but doing it in a way that will harm real users more than bots is a bad idea
  - waboremo 4y ago
thepasswordis 4y ago
Why do you care if they're real or not?
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  When you look at those "How can I make money? / Generated Name taught me how!" astroturfed youtube comment clusters, do you see a positive contribution to the community?
  - thepasswordis 4y ago
    Is that what the parent is describing? Even so, the problem with those comments is that they're annoying spam, not that they are annoying spam made my bots. Humans can post annoying spam too. Look at any social group that attracts pyramid schemers or get rich quick cryptocurrency schemes. Those aren't bots, they're just annoying.
- ben_w 4y ago
  You can go to open-mic nights in a pub if you want, but you don't necessarily appreciate or benefit from being surprised by someone with a megaphone when you went somewhere to hang out with your friends.
  - thepasswordis 4y ago
    Then why have a public subreddit? Maybe I'm misunderstanding OP. IT sounds like there are people on a subreddit talking about politics all the time. That's annoying, but that's also basically the behavior of most people on reddit, bot or not.
    - ben_w 4y ago
      Same reason as the etymology of the word "pub" (public house).
- Hamuko 4y ago
  "Why do you care if you're talking to a human or spambot" is one of the weirdest questions I've heard in a while. Who actually wants to talk to an unidentified AI?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dm_me_dogs 4y ago
I'm a moderator of a fairly large (600K) subreddit, and it's relentless. We have to keep upping the minimum karma req's to post but bots just start acquiring more and more. It's a never ending battle.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bookofjoe 4y ago
  Could this happen on HN?
  - MildlySerious 4y ago
    I'm not sure why it wouldn't, and having dead content enabled, I've seen some weirdly incendiary responses to pretty harmless comments recently. It's weird. I wouldn't be surprised if the HN team is already doing a lot of work already. Another factor that may have spared the HN community is that there are lower hanging fruit to pick first, reddit being the prime example.

k__ 4y ago

Proof of Humanity Worldcoin Gitcoin Passport

catchnear4321 4y ago
Papers, please

intelVISA 4y ago

Verify with a gov't issued ID e.g. IMEI/IMSI, ATPO

catchnear4321 4y ago
do you think most companies know how to securely store and transfer data? do you want them storing and transferring your identification papers?
- grumbel 4y ago
  They don't have to store it, they can delete it after account creation or just keep a hash in case they want to avoid account farming. Youtube is already collecting IDs in the EU if you want to view age-restricted content. Some countries also have ID cards that allow you to digitally prove you are 18 without revealing your ID, maybe that could be used for proving you're human as well (don't know if there is a way to prevent farming here).
  - catchnear4321 4y ago
    so the counter-argument is they only have to know how to securely transfer and delete it. which is very similar to securely transferring and storing it. in terms of required competency. and existing identification requirements don’t lessen the ask. lest wearing identification visibly at all times become the norm. at that point there isn’t an ask.
    - Spivak 4y ago
      Are we living in bizarro world here? This is not some crazy ask and what happens billions of times on Reddit with passwords. There are even 3rd party services that will verify IDs via API and you never even see the data.
      - catchnear4321 4y ago
        now government ids are just passwords? and it shouldn’t matter as much if it’s an extra participant in the conversation?
rob74 4y ago
That would be the end of Reddit though - or of any other social network that got this restrictive. Unless governments mandated it (which will probably be the end result of all this - no more anonymity on the Internet).
- intelVISA 4y ago
  Discord is decently popular in spite of requiring a phone number for their metadata collation service (/science endpoint)
  - flangola7 4y ago
    Discord only requires a phone number on servers that have it turned on as a requirement
pixl97 4y ago
So what do you do when when of your verified posters unintentionally says their trans, then you get a warrant for all their information?
gruez 4y ago
> Verify with a gov't issued ID e.g. IMEI/IMSI, ATPO I have no idea what ATPO is supposed to be, but IMEI/IMSI[1] is definitely not an government issued ID. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment_Identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment...
imachine1980_ 4y ago
so you are magin critical information of people include eu...

dghughes 4y ago

Just keep asking "why" over and over. A human will get annoyed a bot will not.

gooob 4y ago
oh how naive you are
- dghughes 4y ago
  Why?
Paul-Craft 4y ago
Annoying humans is a good way to get them to not want to post in your subreddit, or so I hear.

waboremo 4y ago

There are a couple subs I believe that try to track bots. I say try because they don't exactly do any profound research due to most bots telling on themselves. But you get to see what patterns emerge from these bots: usernames are a big tell, a lot of them seem to be relying on the same script to generate usernames (probably pulled from the first reddit account creator repo they could find), and they repeat themselves a lot even if some nouns are changed (again indicating very primitive understanding of scripts). Another really huge tell, that only works if you're actively on reddit when it happens, is they reply to your comment instantly[1]. It also seems some are using these bots to change course of a subreddit [2], where they are upvoting/downvoting on mass (evading Reddit's usual bot trappings, which IIRC mostly stem from IP?). It's going to be very very interesting to see how easier access to bots is going to affect a lot of social sites. There are two funny things about this entire situation: A) by attempting to call out these bots in some subs, you'll be warned/banned for brigading or being uncivil, and B) some subs have tried to be proactive about the situation but wound up being chastised[3] for various reasons like relying on AI detection tooling which produces a lot of false positives, and a general nonchalance as long as bots "post quality". So basically, outside of external verification and pattern matching, you can't. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/TheseFuckingAccounts/comments/12ssfdq/wow_its_another_amazing_ai_bot_allowing_us_to_see/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheseFuckingAccounts/comments/12ssf... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/botwatch/comments/125iurb/me_and_others_downvoted_for_calling_out_the_spam/ https://www.reddit.com/r/botwatch/comments/125iurb/me_and_ot... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/11vw6qp/posting_aiwritten_content_will_result_in_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/11vw6qp/post...

circuit10 4y ago
I was one of the people who said that using AI detection is a bad idea on that last link. Really, those AI detection tools are extremely unreliable and it’s a bad idea to use them for anything import like moderation decisions. I’m not against trying to stop bots or anything but doing it in a way that will harm real users more than bots is a bad idea
- waboremo 4y ago

thepasswordis 4y ago

Why do you care if they're real or not?

jjoonathan 4y ago
When you look at those "How can I make money? / Generated Name taught me how!" astroturfed youtube comment clusters, do you see a positive contribution to the community?
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  Is that what the parent is describing? Even so, the problem with those comments is that they're annoying spam, not that they are annoying spam made my bots. Humans can post annoying spam too. Look at any social group that attracts pyramid schemers or get rich quick cryptocurrency schemes. Those aren't bots, they're just annoying.
ben_w 4y ago
You can go to open-mic nights in a pub if you want, but you don't necessarily appreciate or benefit from being surprised by someone with a megaphone when you went somewhere to hang out with your friends.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  Then why have a public subreddit? Maybe I'm misunderstanding OP. IT sounds like there are people on a subreddit talking about politics all the time. That's annoying, but that's also basically the behavior of most people on reddit, bot or not.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Same reason as the etymology of the word "pub" (public house).
Hamuko 4y ago
"Why do you care if you're talking to a human or spambot" is one of the weirdest questions I've heard in a while. Who actually wants to talk to an unidentified AI?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dm_me_dogs 4y ago

I'm a moderator of a fairly large (600K) subreddit, and it's relentless. We have to keep upping the minimum karma req's to post but bots just start acquiring more and more. It's a never ending battle.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bookofjoe 4y ago
Could this happen on HN?
- MildlySerious 4y ago
  I'm not sure why it wouldn't, and having dead content enabled, I've seen some weirdly incendiary responses to pretty harmless comments recently. It's weird. I wouldn't be surprised if the HN team is already doing a lot of work already. Another factor that may have spared the HN community is that there are lower hanging fruit to pick first, reddit being the prime example.