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I cloned myself with AI, and she fooled my bank and my family
- sam345 3y agoNo paywall: https://archive.is/RFuoc https://archive.is/RFuoc
- kranke155 3y agoF*ck. Im part of a subreddit right now that seems to be under siege by a heavy number of bots or human-bots. All I can tell is they post everyday on the same topic (politics) then they themselves cross post and post under their own thread with constant incendiary commentary. The big tell seems to be they post at least 75 comments a day and never appear to sleep. They only post about politics and only in this subreddit and always with the same bent. How can I tell if these people are even real?
- k__ 3y agoProof of Humanity Worldcoin Gitcoin Passport
- catchnear4321 3y agoPapers, please
- intelVISA 3y agoVerify with a gov't issued ID e.g. IMEI/IMSI, ATPO
- catchnear4321 3y agodo you think most companies know how to securely store and transfer data? do you want them storing and transferring your identification papers?
- grumbel 3y agoThey don't have to store it, they can delete it after account creation or just keep a hash in case they want to avoid account farming. Youtube is already collecting IDs in the EU if you want to view age-restricted content. Some countries also have ID cards that allow you to digitally prove you are 18 without revealing your ID, maybe that could be used for proving you're human as well (don't know if there is a way to prevent farming here).
- catchnear4321 3y agoso the counter-argument is they only have to know how to securely transfer and delete it. which is very similar to securely transferring and storing it. in terms of required competency. and existing identification requirements don’t lessen the ask. lest wearing identification visibly at all times become the norm. at that point there isn’t an ask.
- Spivak 3y agoAre we living in bizarro world here? This is not some crazy ask and what happens billions of times on Reddit with passwords. There are even 3rd party services that will verify IDs via API and you never even see the data.
- catchnear4321 3y agonow government ids are just passwords? and it shouldn’t matter as much if it’s an extra participant in the conversation?
- rob74 3y agoThat would be the end of Reddit though - or of any other social network that got this restrictive. Unless governments mandated it (which will probably be the end result of all this - no more anonymity on the Internet).
- pixl97 3y agoSo what do you do when when of your verified posters unintentionally says their trans, then you get a warrant for all their information?
- gruez 3y ago> Verify with a gov't issued ID e.g. IMEI/IMSI, ATPO I have no idea what ATPO is supposed to be, but IMEI/IMSI[1] is definitely not an government issued ID. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment_Identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment...
- imachine1980_ 3y agoso you are magin critical information of people include eu...
- dghughes 3y agoJust keep asking "why" over and over. A human will get annoyed a bot will not.
- gooob 3y agooh how naive you are
- dghughes 3y agoWhy?
- Paul-Craft 3y agoAnnoying humans is a good way to get them to not want to post in your subreddit, or so I hear.
- waboremo 3y agoThere are a couple subs I believe that try to track bots. I say try because they don't exactly do any profound research due to most bots telling on themselves. But you get to see what patterns emerge from these bots: usernames are a big tell, a lot of them seem to be relying on the same script to generate usernames (probably pulled from the first reddit account creator repo they could find), and they repeat themselves a lot even if some nouns are changed (again indicating very primitive understanding of scripts). Another really huge tell, that only works if you're actively on reddit when it happens, is they reply to your comment instantly[1]. It also seems some are using these bots to change course of a subreddit [2], where they are upvoting/downvoting on mass (evading Reddit's usual bot trappings, which IIRC mostly stem from IP?). It's going to be very very interesting to see how easier access to bots is going to affect a lot of social sites. There are two funny things about this entire situation: A) by attempting to call out these bots in some subs, you'll be warned/banned for brigading or being uncivil, and B) some subs have tried to be proactive about the situation but wound up being chastised[3] for various reasons like relying on AI detection tooling which produces a lot of false positives, and a general nonchalance as long as bots "post quality". So basically, outside of external verification and pattern matching, you can't. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/TheseFuckingAccounts/comments/12ssfdq/wow_its_another_amazing_ai_bot_allowing_us_to_see/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheseFuckingAccounts/comments/12ssf... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/botwatch/comments/125iurb/me_and_others_downvoted_for_calling_out_the_spam/ https://www.reddit.com/r/botwatch/comments/125iurb/me_and_ot... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/11vw6qp/posting_aiwritten_content_will_result_in_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/11vw6qp/post...
- circuit10 3y agoI was one of the people who said that using AI detection is a bad idea on that last link. Really, those AI detection tools are extremely unreliable and it’s a bad idea to use them for anything import like moderation decisions. I’m not against trying to stop bots or anything but doing it in a way that will harm real users more than bots is a bad idea
- waboremo 3y ago
- thepasswordis 3y agoWhy do you care if they're real or not?
- jjoonathan 3y agoWhen you look at those "How can I make money? / Generated Name taught me how!" astroturfed youtube comment clusters, do you see a positive contribution to the community?
- thepasswordis 3y agoIs that what the parent is describing? Even so, the problem with those comments is that they're annoying spam, not that they are annoying spam made my bots. Humans can post annoying spam too. Look at any social group that attracts pyramid schemers or get rich quick cryptocurrency schemes. Those aren't bots, they're just annoying.
- ben_w 3y agoYou can go to open-mic nights in a pub if you want, but you don't necessarily appreciate or benefit from being surprised by someone with a megaphone when you went somewhere to hang out with your friends.
- thepasswordis 3y agoThen why have a public subreddit? Maybe I'm misunderstanding OP. IT sounds like there are people on a subreddit talking about politics all the time. That's annoying, but that's also basically the behavior of most people on reddit, bot or not.
- ben_w 3y agoSame reason as the etymology of the word "pub" (public house).
- Hamuko 3y ago"Why do you care if you're talking to a human or spambot" is one of the weirdest questions I've heard in a while. Who actually wants to talk to an unidentified AI?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dm_me_dogs 3y agoI'm a moderator of a fairly large (600K) subreddit, and it's relentless. We have to keep upping the minimum karma req's to post but bots just start acquiring more and more. It's a never ending battle.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bookofjoe 3y agoCould this happen on HN?
- MildlySerious 3y agoI'm not sure why it wouldn't, and having dead content enabled, I've seen some weirdly incendiary responses to pretty harmless comments recently. It's weird. I wouldn't be surprised if the HN team is already doing a lot of work already. Another factor that may have spared the HN community is that there are lower hanging fruit to pick first, reddit being the prime example.
- zirgs 3y agoWhy would anyone use voice recognition to authenticate users? It's too easy to fake.
- TheFattestNinja 3y agoSame reason why, at most UK banks, your online credentials (both user and pwd) are case insensitive: it's convenient to the customer. It costs less money to "pay" for the reduced security than it does in attrition causing customer dissatisfaction (which makes them leave), missed transactions, customer support hotline ("I can't login"), etc,
- adrianmsmith 3y ago"It costs less" ... and the question is who pays that cost. If customers leave it's bad for the bank, if customers get scammed then the customers lose their money "well you should have protected your identity better, there's nothing we can do". So from the bank's perspective, customers getting scammed doesn't cost them anything.
- heartbeats 3y agoBanks are usually liable for that.
- TSiege 3y agoI've experienced a bank more or less forcing me into accepting it
- jruohonen 3y agoA broader question would be about biometrics in general. It was not too long ago when these were widely promoted, but now with advances in AI these seem to be increasingly an attack vector.
- mrweasel 3y agoBiometrics is an inherently bad idea. It seems cool, until it's defeated or compromised and we all need new fingerprints or eye-replacement.
- gruez 3y ago>I cued AI Joanna up with several things I knew Chase would ask, then dialed customer service. At the biometric step, when the automated system asked for my name and address, AI Joanna responded. Hearing my bot’s voice, the system recognized it as me and immediately connected to a representative. When our video intern called and did his best Joanna impression, the automated system asked for further verification. They used an AI to impersonate the author (probably a women, based on the name and picture), and were surprised that was more successful getting a man to do the same? That's not really a conclusive experiment. I'd at least try impersonating with another women.
- hammyhavoc 3y agoBit of a sensationalist headline. AI mimicked her. No cloning occurred. "She", isn't. Better headline: "AI Mimicked Me and Successfully Tricked My Bank and Family".
- jaclaz 3y agoOnly it didn't really trick her family and only got through very first level of the bank: >My sister, whom I call several times a week, said the bot sounded just like me, but noticed the bot didn’t pause to take breaths. >When I called my dad and asked for his Social Security number, he only knew something was up because it sounded like a recording of me. >A Chase spokeswoman said the bank uses voice biometrics, along with other tools, to verify callers are who they say they are. She added that the feature is meant for customers to quickly and securely identify themselves, but to complete transactions and other financial requests, customers must provide additional information.
- hammyhavoc 3y agoI'll stand by what I wrote, despite agreeing with some of the points raised. If you do a magic trick, have you done magic? No. You appear to have done x or become y or destroyed z. It's a trick. It isn't real. It's a misdirection. If the person figures out how you did it or that magic doesn't actually exist, it's still a trick. An illusion. Even if it collided with their logic. The problem of pausing for breath is likely very easily solved with randomization and/or monitoring punctuation and character/word count. The father not being convinced is likely a multi-faceted problem. It's weird to be asked for your social security number out of the blue, and that gets people on edge anyway. The headline alone is sensationalized, eschewing that piece of information or slant is also peddling a very specific narrative.
- jaclaz 3y agoSure, what I meant was that if you perform a trick and call it magic is hype, if additionally your trick fails and you call it successful magic it is hype+false reporting. While - before or later - it may well become an issue, it seems that right now the "cloning" is not good enough. OT, but not much, a kind of fraud that has become rather common lately at least here in Italy is someone calling the victim (possibly someone old) on the phone telling them that their son or daughter was involved in an accident or was arrested and some money (cash) is needed immediately to solve the issue, most of the time someone impersonates the son or daughter and - while crying - confirms to the father or mother the situation. Most of the time the victim (put under stress by the news) falls for it. Surely these generated voices will trick more people in a similar situation, but I don't think that (yet) we are there.
- htrp 3y ago>Over the past few months, I’ve been testing Synthesia, a tool that creates artificially intelligent avatars from recorded video and audio (aka deepfakes). Type in anything and your video avatar parrots it back. Synthesia is billed as an AI Video creation platform. From their ethics page >We will not offer our software for public use. All content will go through an explicit internal screening process before being released to our trusted clients. Did they agree to this from the WSJ for the publicity?
- standardly 3y agoI'm waiting on an iteration of this concept that will probably not happen soon due to ethical concerns, but a model that lets you: 1.) Train the avatar's physical appearance (via uploading photos) 2.) Train the avatar's voice (via uploading snippets of someone's voice) Having Morgan Freeman as an AI assistant would be swell, and having myself as an AI assistant would be trippy as hell EDIT: Ok, their platform DOES offer this functionality with the premium Enterprise subscription =\ crazy times
- DemiKone2 3y ago"we use a variety of metric to determine" Translation. Shit! shit! oh SHIT!