4 ms·

I don't think ownership makes sense in the future we are building, optimizing society to achieve greatness as a multiplanetary species involve reinventing money

I don't think ownership makes sense in the future we are building, optimizing society to achieve greatness as a multiplanetary species involve reinventing money and its purpose What society would be today if you had to pay a fee whenever you wanted to use the Pythagoras theorem, we'd be stuck in dark times

__MatrixMan__ 4y ago
Oh you're absolutely right, the notion that you can own information is absurd. Maybe it was necessary at one time as a kind of training-wheels for innovation, but we've long since outgrown it. It'll only ever get more and more absurd. But if somebody you don't know is doing something that's benefiting you, and you're not contributing to their ability to continue doing that thing in some way, then you might be shooting yourself in the foot. In any future worth pursuing, they'd be free to stop contributing if they felt like it, but wouldn't it be a shame if they did so without even knowing that their contributions were considered incredibly valuable by somebody? Like, imagine if Pythagoras couldn't afford food and had to give up geometry club and get a "real job". That would be to everybody's detriment. So while I think that "property" is the wrong tool here--we shouldn't be witholding access to our contributions for any reason--I do think we need something that's a little more impactful than an upvote for saying "more like this please".
manuelmoreale 4y ago
I appreciate your optimism but in the future we’re building, money and ownership seems to be more and more important unfortunately.
- JieJie 4y ago
  Which is why we should be very careful when we consider creating a system that is going to funnel money to people who are already famous for writing, art, etc. How will new artists and writers get their works included in future AI — and then get people to prompt for them — so they can get their paycheck? Even spending a few minutes on this problem would lead to a realization that even if we could create a system that could a) determine rights to any particular portion of an AI-generated work, and b) extract payment and remunerate the artist; would essentially be building a moat around the next generation's intellectual property powerhouses. Generative AI is a revolutionary technology, and we need a revolution in compensation models for arts and letters to go with it.
  - manuelmoreale 4y ago
    Do you believe it can happen? The revolution in compensation. Because as much as I’d love to see it happen, I’m very pessimistic. Because it’s more likely that a small minority will just try to fuck everybody else for their profit because that’s just human nature unfortunately.
    - JieJie 4y ago
      I'm old. I've seen quite a lot in my lifetime. I absolutely believe it can happen. I also believe that when people have the attitude that "a small minority will just try to fuck everybody else for their profit because that’s just human nature unfortunately", a self-fulling prophesy is exactly what will happen if we don't spend our time and energy actively advocating for the other thing. Nothing happens in a vacuum. We get the government we deserve. (I hope this doesn't come off as me "dunking on" you, or whatever people do on social media. I'm not trying to attack you, but that attitude that is all-too-common on social media these days. It's defeatist and it's not going to lead to good outcomes for anyone but the people who are going to "fuck everybody else".)
      - manuelmoreale 4y ago
        > I hope this doesn't come off as me "dunking on" you, or whatever people do on social media. Nah it’s all good. I spend my time advocating for people to engage in more healthy ways, I try encourage people to blog more, to write directly to other humans via email and mail, I try to push for more genuine connections so it’s not like I think everything is doomed. But I’m also not naive when it comes to the internet or society in general. People are obsessed with money. And very few are obsessed with distributing them evenly. Even in the creators space. Which is why I wrote what I wrote. I’d LOVE for a different outcome. I just don’t expect it.
        JieJie 4y ago
        We are on the same page. I'm just not going to give up after trying so hard. Hey, I've seen people take the high road and pass up the money and I've done the same myself. It ain't over till it's over. Wishing you all the very best.
- WhereIsTheTruth 4y ago
  That's not optimism, it's either that or our civilization will disappear like the previous ones, and it is even more true nowadays with China's goal to become a global super power with the Moon and Mars in its trajectory.. so we either focus or get eaten alive

__MatrixMan__ 4y ago

Oh you're absolutely right, the notion that you can own information is absurd. Maybe it was necessary at one time as a kind of training-wheels for innovation, but we've long since outgrown it. It'll only ever get more and more absurd. But if somebody you don't know is doing something that's benefiting you, and you're not contributing to their ability to continue doing that thing in some way, then you might be shooting yourself in the foot. In any future worth pursuing, they'd be free to stop contributing if they felt like it, but wouldn't it be a shame if they did so without even knowing that their contributions were considered incredibly valuable by somebody? Like, imagine if Pythagoras couldn't afford food and had to give up geometry club and get a "real job". That would be to everybody's detriment. So while I think that "property" is the wrong tool here--we shouldn't be witholding access to our contributions for any reason--I do think we need something that's a little more impactful than an upvote for saying "more like this please".

manuelmoreale 4y ago

I appreciate your optimism but in the future we’re building, money and ownership seems to be more and more important unfortunately.

JieJie 4y ago
Which is why we should be very careful when we consider creating a system that is going to funnel money to people who are already famous for writing, art, etc. How will new artists and writers get their works included in future AI — and then get people to prompt for them — so they can get their paycheck? Even spending a few minutes on this problem would lead to a realization that even if we could create a system that could a) determine rights to any particular portion of an AI-generated work, and b) extract payment and remunerate the artist; would essentially be building a moat around the next generation's intellectual property powerhouses. Generative AI is a revolutionary technology, and we need a revolution in compensation models for arts and letters to go with it.
- manuelmoreale 4y ago
  Do you believe it can happen? The revolution in compensation. Because as much as I’d love to see it happen, I’m very pessimistic. Because it’s more likely that a small minority will just try to fuck everybody else for their profit because that’s just human nature unfortunately.
  - JieJie 4y ago
    I'm old. I've seen quite a lot in my lifetime. I absolutely believe it can happen. I also believe that when people have the attitude that "a small minority will just try to fuck everybody else for their profit because that’s just human nature unfortunately", a self-fulling prophesy is exactly what will happen if we don't spend our time and energy actively advocating for the other thing. Nothing happens in a vacuum. We get the government we deserve. (I hope this doesn't come off as me "dunking on" you, or whatever people do on social media. I'm not trying to attack you, but that attitude that is all-too-common on social media these days. It's defeatist and it's not going to lead to good outcomes for anyone but the people who are going to "fuck everybody else".)
    - manuelmoreale 4y ago
      > I hope this doesn't come off as me "dunking on" you, or whatever people do on social media. Nah it’s all good. I spend my time advocating for people to engage in more healthy ways, I try encourage people to blog more, to write directly to other humans via email and mail, I try to push for more genuine connections so it’s not like I think everything is doomed. But I’m also not naive when it comes to the internet or society in general. People are obsessed with money. And very few are obsessed with distributing them evenly. Even in the creators space. Which is why I wrote what I wrote. I’d LOVE for a different outcome. I just don’t expect it.
      - JieJie 4y ago
        We are on the same page. I'm just not going to give up after trying so hard. Hey, I've seen people take the high road and pass up the money and I've done the same myself. It ain't over till it's over. Wishing you all the very best.
WhereIsTheTruth 4y ago
That's not optimism, it's either that or our civilization will disappear like the previous ones, and it is even more true nowadays with China's goal to become a global super power with the Moon and Mars in its trajectory.. so we either focus or get eaten alive