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Cars are absolutely packed with software, and that’s never going to change. The question will only be if that software is getting regular updates or just safety

by zaroth 3y ago

Cars are absolutely packed with software, and that’s never going to change. The question will only be if that software is getting regular updates or just safety critical recall type updates. Auto makers have gotten away with basically walking away from their software once they “ship” a given model year, and then leaving their owners to deal with whatever issues are present. And the issues are certainly plentiful, and I don’t just mean in the infotainment system. Cars are also now required in the US and EU to have a myriad of advanced safety systems which require complex software which often performs poorly. Emergency braking, lane departure warning, emergency lane keeping, drowsiness/attention monitoring, intelligent speed assist, etc. All this software will be constantly evolving as technology improves to better avoid false positives and false negatives, but most brands will only provide the best software for their newest model years and leave the existing fleet with whatever they were able to achieve at the time it shipped. Then there are features like intelligent speed assist which alerts drivers when they are speeding, which requires up-to-date maps and speed limit recognition in order to maintain accuracy. This is all before we get into further developments of more advanced driver assistance and drive automation that will eventually be achieved. The reality is that driving kills hundreds of thousands of people and causes trillions of dollars in economic damages every year due to human error or human callousness, and software is the only way out of this bloodbath. So despite a niche desire by some drivers to own “legacy hardware” the market through strict regulation will continue to incorporate highly advanced and complex software features into automobiles, and ultimately human driving will be a relic, along with the massive toll of lost human life that went along with it. In the meantime, given that complex software stacks are a regulatory requirement for every new car today, it’s a massive advantage to have that software maintained and upgraded across the whole fleet instead of only releasing upgrades with each successive model year and leaving the existing fleet with sub-standard safety systems.

singleshot_ 3y ago
The phrase "software is the only way out" will probably stick with me forever. Horrifying.
- zaroth 3y ago
  That’s wild!! To me it’s hugely inspirational and I meant it as a message of hope and optimism. What could possibly be horrifying about the idea of technological advancement saving millions of lives and vastly improving quality of life all across the world? And how else would you propose to stop the carnage? Or is the carnage somehow worth it to cater to Nostalgia for antiquated and dangerous modes of manually-operated high speed personal transport?
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    Well, I spent the first half of my life in a world that hardly had any software, and now I live in a world that has been eaten by software. It’s awful. Yesterday I got a message from a bank that my account was inactive and might be considered abandoned by the bank. If that happened they would turn it over to the state and I would have to jump through hoops to get it back. So I called them up and inquired: I’ve been using this account and it’s not inactive. What’s up? A person in a faraway land, presumably working in the middle of the night authenticated me and then started clicking in their computer. They agreed that there was activity sufficient that the account was not abandoned. But then they found a “strange message” associated with some “strange activity” on the account. I asked if we could freeze the account while we sorted it out. I am flabbergasted to report that they said no. I went down to the branch to close my account. They were able to zero the account out and give me a cashiers check, but because necessary systems were down, they could not close my account. I had to return today, and now after two visits and a handful of phone calls, I am no longer concerned that my money will disappear. Having worked in technology integration for some time, I could see echoes of bad software in every single one of the obstacles that I faced. I was alive in 1985 and I had a bank account then. If I contacted my bank then for similar help, I would have received prompt, courteous service. The difference between these two scenarios is that the one that happened yesterday and today was infested with software. Now if you want to look forward to a future enabled by good software, you go ahead. Maybe that will help you create that future. I wish you luck. But right now, we live in an unending hell of bad (and badly integrated) software. I reject your false dichotomy. Drive slower, build more robust crash cells, and invest in roads that don’t suck and public transport.
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
Car is like an appliance - It has one use only to get me from point A to point B. No reason for it to be connected to internet and spy on me. No reason for updates, my fridge does not need updates either.
- zaroth 3y ago
  Except fridges don’t kill 40,000 people a year. NHTSA says that improved safety technologies have saved over 600,000 lives between 1960 and 2012. Updates make the car safer for the driver, and safer for everyone they share the road with. Updating the whole fleet’s safety software as the algorithms improve would save thousands of lives and that’s enough reason to make automakers keep updates flowing after the point of sale. Of course it can and should be done without tracking or spying.
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    Because Self Driving is not going to be a thing in nearest future, then mention about anyone killed because missing software update is absolutely irrelevant.
    - zaroth 3y ago
      Level 5 self driving is just the final step on the very broad spectrum of life saving driver assistance software. ADAS software is already required in all new cars sold in the US and EU. And just this week for example Tesla released an update to its AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking) software to improve its performance. https://www.nhtsa.gov/newer-cars-are-safer-cars https://www.nhtsa.gov/newer-cars-are-safer-cars https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-automatic-emergency-braking-safer-update/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-automatic-emergency-braking-...
      - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
        If it is not finished, then it should not be on the road. Therefore we have Level 5 self driving or we have Level 2 assistant tools, everything in between is a timing bomb waiting to kill somebody.

by zaroth 3y ago

singleshot_ 3y ago

The phrase "software is the only way out" will probably stick with me forever. Horrifying.

zaroth 3y ago
That’s wild!! To me it’s hugely inspirational and I meant it as a message of hope and optimism. What could possibly be horrifying about the idea of technological advancement saving millions of lives and vastly improving quality of life all across the world? And how else would you propose to stop the carnage? Or is the carnage somehow worth it to cater to Nostalgia for antiquated and dangerous modes of manually-operated high speed personal transport?
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  Well, I spent the first half of my life in a world that hardly had any software, and now I live in a world that has been eaten by software. It’s awful. Yesterday I got a message from a bank that my account was inactive and might be considered abandoned by the bank. If that happened they would turn it over to the state and I would have to jump through hoops to get it back. So I called them up and inquired: I’ve been using this account and it’s not inactive. What’s up? A person in a faraway land, presumably working in the middle of the night authenticated me and then started clicking in their computer. They agreed that there was activity sufficient that the account was not abandoned. But then they found a “strange message” associated with some “strange activity” on the account. I asked if we could freeze the account while we sorted it out. I am flabbergasted to report that they said no. I went down to the branch to close my account. They were able to zero the account out and give me a cashiers check, but because necessary systems were down, they could not close my account. I had to return today, and now after two visits and a handful of phone calls, I am no longer concerned that my money will disappear. Having worked in technology integration for some time, I could see echoes of bad software in every single one of the obstacles that I faced. I was alive in 1985 and I had a bank account then. If I contacted my bank then for similar help, I would have received prompt, courteous service. The difference between these two scenarios is that the one that happened yesterday and today was infested with software. Now if you want to look forward to a future enabled by good software, you go ahead. Maybe that will help you create that future. I wish you luck. But right now, we live in an unending hell of bad (and badly integrated) software. I reject your false dichotomy. Drive slower, build more robust crash cells, and invest in roads that don’t suck and public transport.

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago

Car is like an appliance - It has one use only to get me from point A to point B. No reason for it to be connected to internet and spy on me. No reason for updates, my fridge does not need updates either.

zaroth 3y ago
Except fridges don’t kill 40,000 people a year. NHTSA says that improved safety technologies have saved over 600,000 lives between 1960 and 2012. Updates make the car safer for the driver, and safer for everyone they share the road with. Updating the whole fleet’s safety software as the algorithms improve would save thousands of lives and that’s enough reason to make automakers keep updates flowing after the point of sale. Of course it can and should be done without tracking or spying.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  Because Self Driving is not going to be a thing in nearest future, then mention about anyone killed because missing software update is absolutely irrelevant.
  - zaroth 3y ago
    Level 5 self driving is just the final step on the very broad spectrum of life saving driver assistance software. ADAS software is already required in all new cars sold in the US and EU. And just this week for example Tesla released an update to its AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking) software to improve its performance. https://www.nhtsa.gov/newer-cars-are-safer-cars https://www.nhtsa.gov/newer-cars-are-safer-cars https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-automatic-emergency-braking-safer-update/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-automatic-emergency-braking-...
    - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
      If it is not finished, then it should not be on the road. Therefore we have Level 5 self driving or we have Level 2 assistant tools, everything in between is a timing bomb waiting to kill somebody.