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1. What do we do if people want to use electricity, but the wind's not blowing and the sun's not shining? 2. What will happen to people and places who were eco

by csense 3y ago

1. What do we do if people want to use electricity, but the wind's not blowing and the sun's not shining? 2. What will happen to people and places who were economically dependent on coal mining? Something tells me the factories for solar panels and wind turbines aren't being built in West Virginia -- or perhaps not in the US at all. And I'm sure they require a completely different skill set.

oblio 3y ago
> 2. What will happen to people and places who were economically dependent on coal mining? Something tells me the factories for solar panels and wind turbines aren't being built in West Virginia -- or perhaps not in the US at all. And I'm sure they require a completely different skill set. What nobody really wants to tell you, the same thing happens that happened to people in deindustrializing area. As a group, they get stuck in poverty. The problem is... we can't really do much about it. Progress needs to happen, especially in this case. Everybody keeps yapping about it but in practice only the longshoremen, through their very powerful unions, managed to have a decent transition when their jobs died out. Everybody says "we should so something" but nobody's willing to sacrifice their money to actually do anything.
perardi 3y ago
1. It’s a very complex problem…and the solution isn’t coal. Because natural gas is cheaper than coal, and less polluting. 2. We build a robust safety net with worker retraining and…haha, I can’t even finish that sentence. It’s the same thing that tends to happen to the working class: nothing good.
reidjs 3y ago
For 1, is it possible to fallback to non-renewables?
quags 3y ago
1) I don’t see how this is a problem. First we are not only dependent on these and have a mix of natural gas , nuclear as well as coal. Out of all coal is the dirtiest for direct pollution into the atmosphere. If we can reduce or eliminate coal by replacing it with wind and solar that is a good thing. Technology will improve to improve storage. 2) while this is an issue coal has been declining for some time. There are health issues with coal and the jobs have been shrinking and half of coal jobs have been lost since 2012. This is with coal usage higher today. The jobs will continue to be reduced regardless. Part of the 2 trillion dollar infrastructure plan includes training and assistance for jobs like coal miner lost. That is the best solution possible for jobs that will not exist in 100 years unless there is suddenly a new purpose for coal. Nacco industries for example is expecting the closing of one mine and plant this year in Texas. It is attempting to diversify into lithium and other minerals. There is a small fight from at least one state senator that may keep it another year but over all it’s not economically viable to keep it with other alternatives.
- kieranmaine 3y ago
  Expanding on your reply to question 1 here are some details on what the UK is doing: * There's a large pipeline of battery storage projects (https://www.energy-storage.news/800mwh-of-utility-scale-energy-storage-capacity-added-in-the-uk-during-2022/ https://www.energy-storage.news/800mwh-of-utility-scale-ener...) * 6 new Interconnectors will be built in the next 3 years with a capacity of 7.5 GW - https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-policy-and-regulation/policy-and-regulatory-programmes/interconnectors https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-policy-and-regulation/policy... * In the last 12 months (https://www.mygridgb.co.uk/last-12-months/ https://www.mygridgb.co.uk/last-12-months/): * battery storage supplied 0.7% of demand * Interconnectors supplied 6.4% of demand in the last 12 months
rahimnathwani 3y ago
The US is a huge country with no restriction on internal migration. Location probably isn't as large a problem as the difference in required skills.
grigri907 3y ago
1. The wind may not be blowing here and the sun may not be shining here but I guarantee it's windy and sunny somewhere. Given a well-structured grid and energy market, this ceases to become a problem. This is a political problem, not a technology or resource problem.
- toast0 3y ago
  > I guarantee it's windy and sunny somewhere. Given a well-structured grid and energy market, this ceases to become a problem. Windy, probably, mostly. Sunny, not really; the Pacific ocean is big and there's a big gap in time before solar drops in California and it comes up in Asia. Not to mention that electricity transmission across the oceans is basically infeasible. A more interconnected grid helps, and storage helps, but you also have to acknowledge that highly available electricity tends to cost more than opportunistic sources, especially as solar and wind costs have gone down. And if you want electricity to be dependable, someone has to pay the higher cost for the desired availability.

by csense 3y ago

oblio 3y ago

> 2. What will happen to people and places who were economically dependent on coal mining? Something tells me the factories for solar panels and wind turbines aren't being built in West Virginia -- or perhaps not in the US at all. And I'm sure they require a completely different skill set. What nobody really wants to tell you, the same thing happens that happened to people in deindustrializing area. As a group, they get stuck in poverty. The problem is... we can't really do much about it. Progress needs to happen, especially in this case. Everybody keeps yapping about it but in practice only the longshoremen, through their very powerful unions, managed to have a decent transition when their jobs died out. Everybody says "we should so something" but nobody's willing to sacrifice their money to actually do anything.

perardi 3y ago

1. It’s a very complex problem…and the solution isn’t coal. Because natural gas is cheaper than coal, and less polluting. 2. We build a robust safety net with worker retraining and…haha, I can’t even finish that sentence. It’s the same thing that tends to happen to the working class: nothing good.

reidjs 3y ago

For 1, is it possible to fallback to non-renewables?

quags 3y ago

1) I don’t see how this is a problem. First we are not only dependent on these and have a mix of natural gas , nuclear as well as coal. Out of all coal is the dirtiest for direct pollution into the atmosphere. If we can reduce or eliminate coal by replacing it with wind and solar that is a good thing. Technology will improve to improve storage. 2) while this is an issue coal has been declining for some time. There are health issues with coal and the jobs have been shrinking and half of coal jobs have been lost since 2012. This is with coal usage higher today. The jobs will continue to be reduced regardless. Part of the 2 trillion dollar infrastructure plan includes training and assistance for jobs like coal miner lost. That is the best solution possible for jobs that will not exist in 100 years unless there is suddenly a new purpose for coal. Nacco industries for example is expecting the closing of one mine and plant this year in Texas. It is attempting to diversify into lithium and other minerals. There is a small fight from at least one state senator that may keep it another year but over all it’s not economically viable to keep it with other alternatives.

kieranmaine 3y ago
Expanding on your reply to question 1 here are some details on what the UK is doing: * There's a large pipeline of battery storage projects (https://www.energy-storage.news/800mwh-of-utility-scale-energy-storage-capacity-added-in-the-uk-during-2022/ https://www.energy-storage.news/800mwh-of-utility-scale-ener...) * 6 new Interconnectors will be built in the next 3 years with a capacity of 7.5 GW - https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-policy-and-regulation/policy-and-regulatory-programmes/interconnectors https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-policy-and-regulation/policy... * In the last 12 months (https://www.mygridgb.co.uk/last-12-months/ https://www.mygridgb.co.uk/last-12-months/): * battery storage supplied 0.7% of demand * Interconnectors supplied 6.4% of demand in the last 12 months

rahimnathwani 3y ago

The US is a huge country with no restriction on internal migration. Location probably isn't as large a problem as the difference in required skills.

grigri907 3y ago

1. The wind may not be blowing here and the sun may not be shining here but I guarantee it's windy and sunny somewhere. Given a well-structured grid and energy market, this ceases to become a problem. This is a political problem, not a technology or resource problem.

toast0 3y ago
> I guarantee it's windy and sunny somewhere. Given a well-structured grid and energy market, this ceases to become a problem. Windy, probably, mostly. Sunny, not really; the Pacific ocean is big and there's a big gap in time before solar drops in California and it comes up in Asia. Not to mention that electricity transmission across the oceans is basically infeasible. A more interconnected grid helps, and storage helps, but you also have to acknowledge that highly available electricity tends to cost more than opportunistic sources, especially as solar and wind costs have gone down. And if you want electricity to be dependable, someone has to pay the higher cost for the desired availability.