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I keep seeing this and reports of decreased sexual drive and I always notice one environmental factor lacking from the studies, population. I go out to more rur

I keep seeing this and reports of decreased sexual drive and I always notice one environmental factor lacking from the studies, population. I go out to more rural areas and can't help but notice that people don't seem to have issues making babies in those areas, big families are quite common and most adults seem to have kids. Perhaps there is a biological factor and these things decrease in response to living in a high population area, increased pollution and high population density do go hand in hand. Anyone know if there have been any studies on this?

marcus0x62 4y ago
No, but having lived in less populated areas for most of my life, I’d say it is a common observation —- by the local population —- that there isn’t anything better to do in many rural places than reproduce.
- autoexec 4y ago
  I'll add that a lot of people in rural places are uneducated when it comes to sex and are more likely to deny their own kids that education growing up so you predictably end up with more accidental pregnancies and younger parents in rural places
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    Is this based on any experience or research of yours or is it just the bias that it sounds like?
    - autoexec 4y ago
      It's based on abstinence only sex ed being more common in rural areas and also linked to higher rates of unplanned/teen pregnancies.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    There are a lot of smart people in rural areas. They may look dumb and speak slow, but get to know them and you eventually discover they have a PhD.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      It's not a question of being smart, it's about education. People in rural areas tend to have less education and are more likely to have inadequate sexual education (abstinence only sex ed programs for example) than people in urban environments.
      - bluGill 4y ago
        PhD is the highest level of education. Despite your bias, farmers do value education, and have a lot more than you think. They are more religious, but that is not the same as uneducated.
        autoexec 4y ago
        It isn't my bias, but simply true I'm afraid that people in rural areas are (statistically speaking) less educated than those in urban areas. See for example https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/rural-economy-population/employment-education/rural-education https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/rural-economy-population/emp... The education gap between rural and urban settings is a subject of much concern and unfortunately the tendency towards religious views has led to increased ignorance about sex as comprehensive sex ed is more likely to be rejected in rural areas replaced by "abstinence only" programs which result in higher rates of unplanned/teen pregnancy and even where comprehensive sex ed is offered, religious parents are much more likely to forbid their children from attending.
        bluGill 4y ago
        It still your bias making a blanket statement that the data you link doesn't really back up. Sure there is less educated people in rural areas, but it isn't that much less.
  - marcus0x62 4y ago
    This comment is mostly based on my own personal anecdotal experience, but that is mostly elitist nonsense. These people don’t know the difference between Sauterne and Riesling, they don’t have the most up-to-date received wisdom and luxury beliefs, but they know by and large where babies come from.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      A lack of comprehensive sex ed and abstinence only "education" is more common in rural areas and is associated with higher rates of teen/unplanned pregnancies. It's also likely that when unplanned pregnancies occur people in urban areas are more likely to seek abortions.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    Thats nonsense. If we lived in a rural area. We would have half dozen kids. We even fantasies about it with my SO. But my SO has no interest in living in a rural area, so that is that.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      It's not as if that's the only reason there are more kids in rural areas, but if you did move to a rural area and had a bunch of kids your children would (statistically speaking) be more likely to have sex at a younger age than children in urban areas, they'd be less likely to have comprehensive sex ed in school and more likely to have abstinence only education which means they'd be more likely to have unplanned/teen pregnancies, and I suspect they'd be less able or less likely to abort unplanned pregnancies than their urban peers as well.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    "education is the enemy of entrepreneurship. the belief that university knowledge generates economic wealth stems more from superstition than empiricism. Empirical investigation shows no evidence that raising the general level of education raises a country's income level. But we know the opposite is true, that wealth leads to the rise of education - that's not an optical illusion" Nassim Nicholas Taleb
    - autoexec 4y ago
      It's got less to do with "university knowledge" and more to do with the fact that rural areas have less comprehensive sex ed and higher rates of teen/unplanned pregnancy as a result.
- sparrish 4y ago
  Once when visiting Honduras, I was having a casual conversation with a local construction worker and we got to talking about family. I told him I had 7 kids. He looked at me with all sincerity and asked "You don't have a television?" We have a TV. We believe children are a blessing from God and we'll take as many blessings as He'll give us. Many of my fellow country bumpkins believe as I do. I think religion has a big impact on the differences between rural and urban family reproduction.
noahtallen 4y ago
It could be a “cultural” bias in the types of people who live in cities. A lot of young professionals might move to cities because it enables a lifestyle they’ll enjoy (not to mention well-paying jobs), and that lifestyle probably doesn’t include kids (at least for a period) for many. Whereas someone who wants kids may move further out to the countryside where it’s significantly cheaper to raise them.
rtpg 4y ago
There are a bunch of surveys on people not having kids. It’s economics. Money (or lack thereof) is the thing. One might think “well city dwellers have more money!” But a huge issue is housing. There’s a supply issue and a cost issue there that simply is a non-issue for rural populations. Searching for some genetic reason is one thing, but “we cant make a comfortable living space for future children” is just a major point that comes up in surveys and just makes sense.
- superchroma 4y ago
  People bang on and on about the money aspect, but the reality is that the income bracket to go from just covering the bills in urban areas to being wealthy enough to be able to foster a child and not take a serious haircut on quality of life (and yes, with space and other concerns taken into account) is quite large.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    Do you have kids? Because the reality is that if you did and you lived in an urban area, you are friends with many couples with kids, and no one is going past two, because they cant afford it without critical haircut to QoL. And often this is families making 3x mean wages . with at least 1 parent working as an engineer or FAANG job. I ask again. Are you a parent?
    - superchroma 3y ago
      I think we agree?
    - Ancapistani 4y ago
      We’re not “going past two”, but it’s not money holding us back. I’m the sole earner in my household, which consists of myself, my wife, and our two daughters. My income puts us right at 4x the mean household income for the county where we live. My wife is already primarily a homemaker, and even with the two kids I have to move things around for work to pitch in when there are scheduling conflicts. The problem isn’t money - it’s time and energy. For us to have more children, we’d almost have to hire domestic help.
rcme 4y ago
Population size is correlated with a million other things, so considering population alone isn’t that helpful unless you have a specific way to tie it to causally to fertility. In the article, for instance, they say pollution is a contributing factor. Pollution is likely correlated with population.
WarOnPrivacy 4y ago
> I keep seeing this and reports of decreased sexual drive and I always notice one environmental factor lacking from the studies, population. I go out to more rural areas and can't help but notice that people don't seem to have issues making babies in those areas, big families are quite common and most adults seem to have kids. I have lived in a variety of rural areas for a number of decades and haven't seen this at all. I have 5 kids; I've seen very few families my size or larger - and nearly all of them were at church.
- TehShrike 4y ago
  It would not surprise me if fertility corresponded with eschatology.

marcus0x62 4y ago

No, but having lived in less populated areas for most of my life, I’d say it is a common observation —- by the local population —- that there isn’t anything better to do in many rural places than reproduce.

autoexec 4y ago
I'll add that a lot of people in rural places are uneducated when it comes to sex and are more likely to deny their own kids that education growing up so you predictably end up with more accidental pregnancies and younger parents in rural places
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Is this based on any experience or research of yours or is it just the bias that it sounds like?
  - autoexec 4y ago
    It's based on abstinence only sex ed being more common in rural areas and also linked to higher rates of unplanned/teen pregnancies.
- bluGill 4y ago
  There are a lot of smart people in rural areas. They may look dumb and speak slow, but get to know them and you eventually discover they have a PhD.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    It's not a question of being smart, it's about education. People in rural areas tend to have less education and are more likely to have inadequate sexual education (abstinence only sex ed programs for example) than people in urban environments.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      PhD is the highest level of education. Despite your bias, farmers do value education, and have a lot more than you think. They are more religious, but that is not the same as uneducated.
      - autoexec 4y ago
        It isn't my bias, but simply true I'm afraid that people in rural areas are (statistically speaking) less educated than those in urban areas. See for example https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/rural-economy-population/employment-education/rural-education https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/rural-economy-population/emp... The education gap between rural and urban settings is a subject of much concern and unfortunately the tendency towards religious views has led to increased ignorance about sex as comprehensive sex ed is more likely to be rejected in rural areas replaced by "abstinence only" programs which result in higher rates of unplanned/teen pregnancy and even where comprehensive sex ed is offered, religious parents are much more likely to forbid their children from attending.
        bluGill 4y ago
        It still your bias making a blanket statement that the data you link doesn't really back up. Sure there is less educated people in rural areas, but it isn't that much less.
- marcus0x62 4y ago
  This comment is mostly based on my own personal anecdotal experience, but that is mostly elitist nonsense. These people don’t know the difference between Sauterne and Riesling, they don’t have the most up-to-date received wisdom and luxury beliefs, but they know by and large where babies come from.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    A lack of comprehensive sex ed and abstinence only "education" is more common in rural areas and is associated with higher rates of teen/unplanned pregnancies. It's also likely that when unplanned pregnancies occur people in urban areas are more likely to seek abortions.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Thats nonsense. If we lived in a rural area. We would have half dozen kids. We even fantasies about it with my SO. But my SO has no interest in living in a rural area, so that is that.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    It's not as if that's the only reason there are more kids in rural areas, but if you did move to a rural area and had a bunch of kids your children would (statistically speaking) be more likely to have sex at a younger age than children in urban areas, they'd be less likely to have comprehensive sex ed in school and more likely to have abstinence only education which means they'd be more likely to have unplanned/teen pregnancies, and I suspect they'd be less able or less likely to abort unplanned pregnancies than their urban peers as well.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  "education is the enemy of entrepreneurship. the belief that university knowledge generates economic wealth stems more from superstition than empiricism. Empirical investigation shows no evidence that raising the general level of education raises a country's income level. But we know the opposite is true, that wealth leads to the rise of education - that's not an optical illusion" Nassim Nicholas Taleb
  - autoexec 4y ago
    It's got less to do with "university knowledge" and more to do with the fact that rural areas have less comprehensive sex ed and higher rates of teen/unplanned pregnancy as a result.
sparrish 4y ago
Once when visiting Honduras, I was having a casual conversation with a local construction worker and we got to talking about family. I told him I had 7 kids. He looked at me with all sincerity and asked "You don't have a television?" We have a TV. We believe children are a blessing from God and we'll take as many blessings as He'll give us. Many of my fellow country bumpkins believe as I do. I think religion has a big impact on the differences between rural and urban family reproduction.

noahtallen 4y ago

It could be a “cultural” bias in the types of people who live in cities. A lot of young professionals might move to cities because it enables a lifestyle they’ll enjoy (not to mention well-paying jobs), and that lifestyle probably doesn’t include kids (at least for a period) for many. Whereas someone who wants kids may move further out to the countryside where it’s significantly cheaper to raise them.

rtpg 4y ago

There are a bunch of surveys on people not having kids. It’s economics. Money (or lack thereof) is the thing. One might think “well city dwellers have more money!” But a huge issue is housing. There’s a supply issue and a cost issue there that simply is a non-issue for rural populations. Searching for some genetic reason is one thing, but “we cant make a comfortable living space for future children” is just a major point that comes up in surveys and just makes sense.

superchroma 4y ago
People bang on and on about the money aspect, but the reality is that the income bracket to go from just covering the bills in urban areas to being wealthy enough to be able to foster a child and not take a serious haircut on quality of life (and yes, with space and other concerns taken into account) is quite large.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Do you have kids? Because the reality is that if you did and you lived in an urban area, you are friends with many couples with kids, and no one is going past two, because they cant afford it without critical haircut to QoL. And often this is families making 3x mean wages . with at least 1 parent working as an engineer or FAANG job. I ask again. Are you a parent?
  - superchroma 3y ago
    I think we agree?
  - Ancapistani 4y ago
    We’re not “going past two”, but it’s not money holding us back. I’m the sole earner in my household, which consists of myself, my wife, and our two daughters. My income puts us right at 4x the mean household income for the county where we live. My wife is already primarily a homemaker, and even with the two kids I have to move things around for work to pitch in when there are scheduling conflicts. The problem isn’t money - it’s time and energy. For us to have more children, we’d almost have to hire domestic help.

rcme 4y ago

Population size is correlated with a million other things, so considering population alone isn’t that helpful unless you have a specific way to tie it to causally to fertility. In the article, for instance, they say pollution is a contributing factor. Pollution is likely correlated with population.

WarOnPrivacy 4y ago

> I keep seeing this and reports of decreased sexual drive and I always notice one environmental factor lacking from the studies, population. I go out to more rural areas and can't help but notice that people don't seem to have issues making babies in those areas, big families are quite common and most adults seem to have kids. I have lived in a variety of rural areas for a number of decades and haven't seen this at all. I have 5 kids; I've seen very few families my size or larger - and nearly all of them were at church.

TehShrike 4y ago
It would not surprise me if fertility corresponded with eschatology.