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I think he chose a pretty bad example to lead in with. Yeah, the comment to Lovell lacked taste, but it was hardly the worst thing that could have been said.

by j_baker 15y ago

I think he chose a pretty bad example to lead in with. Yeah, the comment to Lovell lacked taste, but it was hardly the worst thing that could have been said. That said, there was a good point here: Think before you open your mouth. Couldn't agree more. Far too many faux pas (including some that I've made) could be avoided just by thinking about what you're about to say before you say it.

lmkg 15y ago
> ... it was hardly the worst thing that could have been said While I agree with this statement to an extent, on the other hand, which has more of an impact: the infrequent blatant examples, or the more common low-level ones? I can't answer that myself, but I would imagine that the ubiquity of the ubiquitous different treatment would bother me more than the blatancy of the few blatant assholes.
pavel_lishin 15y ago
> it was hardly the worst thing that could have been said. "He didn't slap her ass, therefore it's fine."
saalweachter 15y ago
Reversing the genders in the introduction yields, "Robert's one of the smartest men[1] I know, and I thought that he was a perfect pick for the role of moderator. When we selected Robert and he said yes, he was a sexy single man. And since that time, he’s become a sexy married man, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up. So we’ve got not only a very talented, but a happy moderator.", which is only slightly weird. Removing the obvious weird part -- "sexy" -- yields, "... When we selected Robert and he said yes, he was a single man. And since that time, he’s become a married man, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up ...", which isn't weird anymore, but somewhat of an awkward construction; you don't say "he has become a married man" in normal conversation. If I had to rephrase that less awkwardly, I'd go with "... since we selected Robert and he said yes, he's gone and got himself married, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up ...". Maybe throw in the classic, "Let's have a round of applause for the happy couple." Putting this all back together: "Rebecca’s one of the smartest ladies I know, and I thought that she was a perfect pick for the role of moderator. Since we selected Rebecca and she said yes, she's gone and got herself married, and so I wanted her lucky new spouse to stand up. (Let's have a round of applause for the happy couple.) So we’ve got not only a very talented, but a happy moderator." [1] "ladies" might be slightly off in this context, but I think it's less egregious than twisting a marriage announcement into an opportunity to call a woman sexy twice.
- esrauch 15y ago
  I really don't see how this is such a big issue, it's slightly out of place to call someone sexy, but the simple fact of the matter is that it is partially just a matter of gender associated terms. Imagine this: > "Robert's one of the smartest men[1] I know, and I thought that he was a perfect pick for the role of moderator. When we selected Robert and he said yes, he was a handsome single man. And since that time, he’s become a handsome married man, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up. So we’ve got not only a very talented, but a happy moderator." That doesn't seem even remotely odd or out of place to me (perhaps it would be as the entirety of an introduction, but that isn't the case here). So yes, he maybe should have said "beautiful" instead of "sexy", but if people think this is an example of how the tech community is sexist then they are seriously deluding themselves with how non-sexist it really is.
  - scott_s 15y ago
    If I was introduced as a "handsome single man," I would find it very, very strange. To the point that before I said anything, I would just look at the person introducing me with a bewildered look for a few seconds before speaking. So, yes, I find it quite out of place.
    - enjo 15y ago
      Isn't the implication here that these folks know each other?
      - scott_s 15y ago
        Also not relevant. In a professional setting, I don't care if you're introducing your spouse, calling the person "sexy" is not appropriate.
    - efnx 15y ago
      But what if you were a "handsome single man?" At least they're being accurate.

by j_baker 15y ago

lmkg 15y ago

> ... it was hardly the worst thing that could have been said While I agree with this statement to an extent, on the other hand, which has more of an impact: the infrequent blatant examples, or the more common low-level ones? I can't answer that myself, but I would imagine that the ubiquity of the ubiquitous different treatment would bother me more than the blatancy of the few blatant assholes.

pavel_lishin 15y ago

> it was hardly the worst thing that could have been said. "He didn't slap her ass, therefore it's fine."

saalweachter 15y ago

Reversing the genders in the introduction yields, "Robert's one of the smartest men[1] I know, and I thought that he was a perfect pick for the role of moderator. When we selected Robert and he said yes, he was a sexy single man. And since that time, he’s become a sexy married man, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up. So we’ve got not only a very talented, but a happy moderator.", which is only slightly weird. Removing the obvious weird part -- "sexy" -- yields, "... When we selected Robert and he said yes, he was a single man. And since that time, he’s become a married man, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up ...", which isn't weird anymore, but somewhat of an awkward construction; you don't say "he has become a married man" in normal conversation. If I had to rephrase that less awkwardly, I'd go with "... since we selected Robert and he said yes, he's gone and got himself married, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up ...". Maybe throw in the classic, "Let's have a round of applause for the happy couple." Putting this all back together: "Rebecca’s one of the smartest ladies I know, and I thought that she was a perfect pick for the role of moderator. Since we selected Rebecca and she said yes, she's gone and got herself married, and so I wanted her lucky new spouse to stand up. (Let's have a round of applause for the happy couple.) So we’ve got not only a very talented, but a happy moderator." [1] "ladies" might be slightly off in this context, but I think it's less egregious than twisting a marriage announcement into an opportunity to call a woman sexy twice.

esrauch 15y ago
I really don't see how this is such a big issue, it's slightly out of place to call someone sexy, but the simple fact of the matter is that it is partially just a matter of gender associated terms. Imagine this: > "Robert's one of the smartest men[1] I know, and I thought that he was a perfect pick for the role of moderator. When we selected Robert and he said yes, he was a handsome single man. And since that time, he’s become a handsome married man, and so I wanted his lucky new spouse to stand up. So we’ve got not only a very talented, but a happy moderator." That doesn't seem even remotely odd or out of place to me (perhaps it would be as the entirety of an introduction, but that isn't the case here). So yes, he maybe should have said "beautiful" instead of "sexy", but if people think this is an example of how the tech community is sexist then they are seriously deluding themselves with how non-sexist it really is.
- scott_s 15y ago
  If I was introduced as a "handsome single man," I would find it very, very strange. To the point that before I said anything, I would just look at the person introducing me with a bewildered look for a few seconds before speaking. So, yes, I find it quite out of place.
  - enjo 15y ago
    Isn't the implication here that these folks know each other?
    - scott_s 15y ago
      Also not relevant. In a professional setting, I don't care if you're introducing your spouse, calling the person "sexy" is not appropriate.
  - efnx 15y ago
    But what if you were a "handsome single man?" At least they're being accurate.