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I don't think you can launch rockets without impact on the environment. But you probably can put a bit more effort into mitigating the impact than SpaceX did he

I don't think you can launch rockets without impact on the environment. But you probably can put a bit more effort into mitigating the impact than SpaceX did here. And I think it is fair to ask for the kind of measures that are used on essentially every other launch facility like flame trenches/diverters and deluge systems.

elil17 4y ago
I think, in this specific case, SpaceX should be held to a higher standard than one normally would be. Normally you don't claim that you intend for your rocket to blow up when you launch it. If they're going to go around saying this wasn't an accident, then they should have had a much, much better plan for cleaning up the mess they made. I think litter laws should apply in this case. I'm afraid it would never get enforced because the US justice system tends to let the rich get away with anything, but dumping 200 pounds or more of commercial waste in Texas carries a minimum 180 day sentence under Texas state law (https://www.ennistx.gov/Illegal-Dumping-Violations/ https://www.ennistx.gov/Illegal-Dumping-Violations/). Not something I think should apply in the case of a true accident, or if you had a good plan to really go above and beyond in terms of mitigating the damage (not necessarily perfect, but very good).
- drcongo 4y ago
  It's a shame this isn't a top level comment, it's the best response in the thread.
- apendleton 4y ago
  I think it blowing up or otherwise failing was probably the most likely case and they didn't really hide that fact, but I get the sense that they expected that it would make it a little further along, and not destroy the pad, such that the mess would end up in the ocean instead of on land. This is also littering of a sort, but it's also how every rocket stage pre-SpaceX has met its demise anyway, by design (except for the Chinese ones that seem to have a tendency to come down on land, often in populated areas). Dropping rocket parts in the ocean is just an accepted part of doing business, for better or worse.
cryptonector 4y ago
To be fair it's now clear that Elon and friends now also agree that they need something like a flame diverter, though for different reasons. Well, to be even more fair Elon doesn't seem interested in a diverter or trench but in a [thick] steel plate cooled by water. That would still allow the exhaust to run along the ground far beyond the OLM. He could erect some berms covered in concrete at a some distance from the OLM to avoid damage from that.
- apple4ever 4y ago
  To me it sounds like that was always the plan after initial test. They just didn't have time to finish building it. And seems like they didn't expect to be as bad as it was. That happens when you run do a test. Sometimes you get things you don't expect.
  - cryptonector 4y ago
    Sure they had time. To be generous we can say they failed to extrapolate correctly from the 50% thrust test firing, but that may be a tad too generous. That said, I don't think it's that big a deal, and anyways SpaceX is already paying a steep price for this mistake.

elil17 4y ago

I think, in this specific case, SpaceX should be held to a higher standard than one normally would be. Normally you don't claim that you intend for your rocket to blow up when you launch it. If they're going to go around saying this wasn't an accident, then they should have had a much, much better plan for cleaning up the mess they made. I think litter laws should apply in this case. I'm afraid it would never get enforced because the US justice system tends to let the rich get away with anything, but dumping 200 pounds or more of commercial waste in Texas carries a minimum 180 day sentence under Texas state law (https://www.ennistx.gov/Illegal-Dumping-Violations/ https://www.ennistx.gov/Illegal-Dumping-Violations/). Not something I think should apply in the case of a true accident, or if you had a good plan to really go above and beyond in terms of mitigating the damage (not necessarily perfect, but very good).

drcongo 4y ago
It's a shame this isn't a top level comment, it's the best response in the thread.
apendleton 4y ago
I think it blowing up or otherwise failing was probably the most likely case and they didn't really hide that fact, but I get the sense that they expected that it would make it a little further along, and not destroy the pad, such that the mess would end up in the ocean instead of on land. This is also littering of a sort, but it's also how every rocket stage pre-SpaceX has met its demise anyway, by design (except for the Chinese ones that seem to have a tendency to come down on land, often in populated areas). Dropping rocket parts in the ocean is just an accepted part of doing business, for better or worse.

cryptonector 4y ago

To be fair it's now clear that Elon and friends now also agree that they need something like a flame diverter, though for different reasons. Well, to be even more fair Elon doesn't seem interested in a diverter or trench but in a [thick] steel plate cooled by water. That would still allow the exhaust to run along the ground far beyond the OLM. He could erect some berms covered in concrete at a some distance from the OLM to avoid damage from that.

apple4ever 4y ago
To me it sounds like that was always the plan after initial test. They just didn't have time to finish building it. And seems like they didn't expect to be as bad as it was. That happens when you run do a test. Sometimes you get things you don't expect.
- cryptonector 4y ago
  Sure they had time. To be generous we can say they failed to extrapolate correctly from the 50% thrust test firing, but that may be a tad too generous. That said, I don't think it's that big a deal, and anyways SpaceX is already paying a steep price for this mistake.