4 ms·

I'm not joking, but will 2025 finally be the year of Desktop Linux? Given the advances in Steam/Proton along with PopOS and Linux UI support in general and tha

I'm not joking, but will 2025 finally be the year of Desktop Linux? Given the advances in Steam/Proton along with PopOS and Linux UI support in general and that most people have moved on from being tethered to most applications outside the browser... It seems like it could be a good time for many to make such a switch.

pjmlp 4y ago
Just like it was during Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10, 11. Every time a new release came out, it was going to be the one that finally would trigger the exodus towards Linux. Yet the best Valve can do is "emulate" Windows, because not even the studios that target Android with NDK bother with GNU/Linux.
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  It's foolish to think that anything Microsoft does will trigger an exodus towards Linux. Your typical non-technical user, if they decide they're fed up with the latest version of Windows adding more spyware/adware, is more likely to switch to a Mac than to Linux.
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    your typical non-technical user is totally unaware of any spyware and probably likes the ads, assuming they point to games, weather apps, and celebrity news sites
  - yarg 4y ago
    Your typical non-technical user still has zero interest in paying Apple prices.
    - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
      iPhone, iPad, and MacBook sales would indicate otherwise.
      - yarg 4y ago
        A quick google search would indicate otherwise: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/10/apples-mac-shipments-fall-more-than-40percent-worse-than-major-rivals-idc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/10/apples-mac-shipments-fall-mo....
        pjmlp 4y ago
        Of course, just like the PC sales are down, or Samsung has lost 95% of revenue. Everyone is already happy with the devices they own and aren't in a rush to replace them. How many million European users does that 2% Desktop Linux map to? https://www.apple.com/legal/more-resources/dsa/mt/ https://www.apple.com/legal/more-resources/dsa/mt/
Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
Question: Given the advances, how possible is it to use Linux without ever touching the Terminal? Until the answer is "100% possible", it will never be the year of Desktop Linux. It's also worth noting that desktop computers are dropping in popularity for home users. Gamers will use them for years to come, but the average non-technical home user that just wants a web browser and social media are more likely to opt for a tablet these days. If they REALLY want a keyboard and a larger screen, they'll probably get a laptop.
- gatonegro 4y ago
  It's perfectly doable. I set up Linux Mint for a non-technical family member on a laptop almost a year ago. They use it for browsing the Internet, watching things on streaming services, etc. I just told them to click on the small shield icon that pops up in the system tray now and again to install system updates. I visited them yesterday and asked to see the laptop out of curiosity. It's fully updated, fast, and does everything they want.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
    I wish it was true. I use linux on a day to day and when things go wrong (updates or apps), you need a terminal. When things go well, you sometimes need a terminal to avoid jankiness. I guess a person who uses a pc in a very limited way might not notice, but then they could also use any os and achieve the same.
    - gatonegro 4y ago
      When updates or apps go wrong on Windows, you sometimes need to use Powershell. Sometimes it's easier to use Powershell for admin tasks to avoid janky settings menus. What's the difference?
      - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
        The person using the terminal who is not a developer has no idea what to type, unless they have *some bash training*
TinkersW 4y ago
I tried, it is almost there, but font scaling at 4k was one issue--didn't work worth a damn in linux.
- happymellon 4y ago
  Font scaling at 4k? Do you mean the appearance fonts when doing fractional scaling on a 4k. I don't see much difference between my Mac and Gnome on my 4k screens.
PicassoCTs 4y ago
Imagine a generation, growing up with a gaming system that is not a windows pc. All it needs, is to be capable to do something that windows can not do. One killer feature. The momentum has shifted. And the youth has no preconceptions, as long as it works and offers methods to modify.
darkteflon 4y ago
I’ve been impressed at how quickly the anti-cheat situation under Proton has improved. The only reason I keep a Windows install around at the moment is to play Warzone and Tarkov with mates. If you’re an Apex, Hunt or Day Z player, for instance, you can already get your game on thanks to recent improvements. 2025 doesn’t seem like a bad bet.
donmcronald 4y ago
After 20 years I'm convinced it's never going to be the year of the Linux desktop. Simple things still don't work, at least the last time I tried about 6 months ago. For example, display scaling is terrible compared to Windows and the remote desktop solutions haven't improved in 2 decades. It's not even possible to install VNC on a stock Ubuntu 22.04 install without a bunch of screwing around because it doesn't work with Wayland. In Windows it takes 5s to enable RDP. In Linux it's frustrating to set up and, no matter what solution you choose, the experience is sub par vs Windows. In Windows I can use WebAuthN over RDP. In Linux I can barely get a passable RDP solution. The problem with Linux is that everything gets to 80% or 90% usable and then someone decides there needs to be a new improved version and the development results in years of broken crap. It happens over and over and over and the OS never gets to the point I would consider stable enough to rely on. To be clear, I don't mean stable in terms of not crashing. I mean stable in terms of logging in and being able to do a day of work without the potential of having to screw around with something that's broken or not working.
- TingPing 4y ago
  VNC is built in to GNOME. You just enable it in the control panel. It certainly isn’t RDP though.
  - tapoxi 4y ago
    It actually is RDP: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Mutter/RemoteDesktop https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Mutter/RemoteDesktop
  - donmcronald 4y ago
    AFAIK (and I could be wrong), that runs in the current user session, so it doesn't work for headless systems or systems that haven't been logged on. And that kind of speaks to my complaint. I've used Linux for 2 decades and I can't even get remote desktop set up to allow me to switch between users / profiles. I can technically, and I've done it for Hyper-V enhanced session support, but it's a huge pain. There's a neat script on GitHub to help with it for Hyper-V, but Google's tracking seems to be broken in a way that won't let me follow links from search, so I guess I'm just going to say screw it for the day and hope all the broken trash works better tomorrow. Lmao.
arprocter 4y ago
Lack of TPM is going to make an insane number of otherwise usable PCs obsolete Perhaps a distro solely focusing on Wine could clean up?
- tracker1 4y ago
  I'd love to see a decent package that includes Proton... I'm using a proton launcher written in Rust for a few Windows apps that seems to do okay, but I had to set my proton version in Steam to the one the launcher expects. I would think that it would be easy enough for someone more familiar with Wine and Proton to work through... not sure why the launcher doesn't have a more baked in dependency on Proton that it automagically loads on first use. IIRC, there have been distros with a better WINE integration, though they haven't been particularly interesting to me. Given the popularity of MINT for starting users, that would probably be a good place to start from. But I don't know where their core team stands as far as the distro's direction.
- TingPing 4y ago
  You can bypass the TPM requirement and it works fine. Of course who knows about future updates.
  - arprocter 4y ago
    I've done that myself - worked fine until recently when it refused to install the 22H2 update Tried a few things, but ended up reinstalling and having the Windows.old folder
dogma1138 4y ago
Yes, but through WSL.
CyberRage 4y ago
Honestly, I can't see how GNU-Linux is going to ever replace something like Windows. The core issue is that Linux wasn't designed around regular consumers but rather around pros/techies This is why Android or even ChromeOS were able to penetrate consumer markets far more while being based on the same Linux kernel Google prioritized easy, intuitive UI that any person can pick up easily without any prior knowledge no terminal commands, no need to understand file-systems, no config-changes, no debugging errors Apple has proved this is as crucial as the quality of the kernel/OS itself
- happymellon 4y ago
  I haven't needed to use the terminal at all with Fedora for years. What actions are you doing that require a terminal?
  - CyberRage 4y ago
    quite a bit actually making two displays work properly with correct aspect ratio and refresh rate buggy UI components that needed restart from terminal Many features aren't fully accessible from the UI AFAIK I actually tend to interact with Linux machine mostly via terminal because UI is so unreliable from my experience If there's one thing that Linux does very poorly IMO, it is GUI (technically desktop environments but you get the point)
    - happymellon 4y ago
      I can only discuss one point, since there is really only one you made. > making two displays work properly with correct aspect ratio and refresh rate What was missing from the Gnome display settings? I have all those options.
yarg 4y ago
For some, but most people aren't going to change away from the OS that their machines come configured with.
room505 4y ago
I can't get Revit or AutoCAD on Linux, so no.

pjmlp 4y ago

Just like it was during Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10, 11. Every time a new release came out, it was going to be the one that finally would trigger the exodus towards Linux. Yet the best Valve can do is "emulate" Windows, because not even the studios that target Android with NDK bother with GNU/Linux.

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
It's foolish to think that anything Microsoft does will trigger an exodus towards Linux. Your typical non-technical user, if they decide they're fed up with the latest version of Windows adding more spyware/adware, is more likely to switch to a Mac than to Linux.
- listenallyall 4y ago
  your typical non-technical user is totally unaware of any spyware and probably likes the ads, assuming they point to games, weather apps, and celebrity news sites
- yarg 4y ago
  Your typical non-technical user still has zero interest in paying Apple prices.
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    iPhone, iPad, and MacBook sales would indicate otherwise.
    - yarg 4y ago
      A quick google search would indicate otherwise: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/10/apples-mac-shipments-fall-more-than-40percent-worse-than-major-rivals-idc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/10/apples-mac-shipments-fall-mo....
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Of course, just like the PC sales are down, or Samsung has lost 95% of revenue. Everyone is already happy with the devices they own and aren't in a rush to replace them. How many million European users does that 2% Desktop Linux map to? https://www.apple.com/legal/more-resources/dsa/mt/ https://www.apple.com/legal/more-resources/dsa/mt/

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago

Question: Given the advances, how possible is it to use Linux without ever touching the Terminal? Until the answer is "100% possible", it will never be the year of Desktop Linux. It's also worth noting that desktop computers are dropping in popularity for home users. Gamers will use them for years to come, but the average non-technical home user that just wants a web browser and social media are more likely to opt for a tablet these days. If they REALLY want a keyboard and a larger screen, they'll probably get a laptop.

gatonegro 4y ago
It's perfectly doable. I set up Linux Mint for a non-technical family member on a laptop almost a year ago. They use it for browsing the Internet, watching things on streaming services, etc. I just told them to click on the small shield icon that pops up in the system tray now and again to install system updates. I visited them yesterday and asked to see the laptop out of curiosity. It's fully updated, fast, and does everything they want.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  I wish it was true. I use linux on a day to day and when things go wrong (updates or apps), you need a terminal. When things go well, you sometimes need a terminal to avoid jankiness. I guess a person who uses a pc in a very limited way might not notice, but then they could also use any os and achieve the same.
  - gatonegro 4y ago
    When updates or apps go wrong on Windows, you sometimes need to use Powershell. Sometimes it's easier to use Powershell for admin tasks to avoid janky settings menus. What's the difference?
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
      The person using the terminal who is not a developer has no idea what to type, unless they have *some bash training*

TinkersW 4y ago

I tried, it is almost there, but font scaling at 4k was one issue--didn't work worth a damn in linux.

happymellon 4y ago
Font scaling at 4k? Do you mean the appearance fonts when doing fractional scaling on a 4k. I don't see much difference between my Mac and Gnome on my 4k screens.

PicassoCTs 4y ago

Imagine a generation, growing up with a gaming system that is not a windows pc. All it needs, is to be capable to do something that windows can not do. One killer feature. The momentum has shifted. And the youth has no preconceptions, as long as it works and offers methods to modify.

darkteflon 4y ago

I’ve been impressed at how quickly the anti-cheat situation under Proton has improved. The only reason I keep a Windows install around at the moment is to play Warzone and Tarkov with mates. If you’re an Apex, Hunt or Day Z player, for instance, you can already get your game on thanks to recent improvements. 2025 doesn’t seem like a bad bet.

donmcronald 4y ago

After 20 years I'm convinced it's never going to be the year of the Linux desktop. Simple things still don't work, at least the last time I tried about 6 months ago. For example, display scaling is terrible compared to Windows and the remote desktop solutions haven't improved in 2 decades. It's not even possible to install VNC on a stock Ubuntu 22.04 install without a bunch of screwing around because it doesn't work with Wayland. In Windows it takes 5s to enable RDP. In Linux it's frustrating to set up and, no matter what solution you choose, the experience is sub par vs Windows. In Windows I can use WebAuthN over RDP. In Linux I can barely get a passable RDP solution. The problem with Linux is that everything gets to 80% or 90% usable and then someone decides there needs to be a new improved version and the development results in years of broken crap. It happens over and over and over and the OS never gets to the point I would consider stable enough to rely on. To be clear, I don't mean stable in terms of not crashing. I mean stable in terms of logging in and being able to do a day of work without the potential of having to screw around with something that's broken or not working.

TingPing 4y ago
VNC is built in to GNOME. You just enable it in the control panel. It certainly isn’t RDP though.
- tapoxi 4y ago
  It actually is RDP: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Mutter/RemoteDesktop https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Mutter/RemoteDesktop
- donmcronald 4y ago
  AFAIK (and I could be wrong), that runs in the current user session, so it doesn't work for headless systems or systems that haven't been logged on. And that kind of speaks to my complaint. I've used Linux for 2 decades and I can't even get remote desktop set up to allow me to switch between users / profiles. I can technically, and I've done it for Hyper-V enhanced session support, but it's a huge pain. There's a neat script on GitHub to help with it for Hyper-V, but Google's tracking seems to be broken in a way that won't let me follow links from search, so I guess I'm just going to say screw it for the day and hope all the broken trash works better tomorrow. Lmao.

arprocter 4y ago

Lack of TPM is going to make an insane number of otherwise usable PCs obsolete Perhaps a distro solely focusing on Wine could clean up?

tracker1 4y ago
I'd love to see a decent package that includes Proton... I'm using a proton launcher written in Rust for a few Windows apps that seems to do okay, but I had to set my proton version in Steam to the one the launcher expects. I would think that it would be easy enough for someone more familiar with Wine and Proton to work through... not sure why the launcher doesn't have a more baked in dependency on Proton that it automagically loads on first use. IIRC, there have been distros with a better WINE integration, though they haven't been particularly interesting to me. Given the popularity of MINT for starting users, that would probably be a good place to start from. But I don't know where their core team stands as far as the distro's direction.
TingPing 4y ago
You can bypass the TPM requirement and it works fine. Of course who knows about future updates.
- arprocter 4y ago
  I've done that myself - worked fine until recently when it refused to install the 22H2 update Tried a few things, but ended up reinstalling and having the Windows.old folder

dogma1138 4y ago

Yes, but through WSL.

CyberRage 4y ago

Honestly, I can't see how GNU-Linux is going to ever replace something like Windows. The core issue is that Linux wasn't designed around regular consumers but rather around pros/techies This is why Android or even ChromeOS were able to penetrate consumer markets far more while being based on the same Linux kernel Google prioritized easy, intuitive UI that any person can pick up easily without any prior knowledge no terminal commands, no need to understand file-systems, no config-changes, no debugging errors Apple has proved this is as crucial as the quality of the kernel/OS itself

happymellon 4y ago
I haven't needed to use the terminal at all with Fedora for years. What actions are you doing that require a terminal?
- CyberRage 4y ago
  quite a bit actually making two displays work properly with correct aspect ratio and refresh rate buggy UI components that needed restart from terminal Many features aren't fully accessible from the UI AFAIK I actually tend to interact with Linux machine mostly via terminal because UI is so unreliable from my experience If there's one thing that Linux does very poorly IMO, it is GUI (technically desktop environments but you get the point)
  - happymellon 4y ago
    I can only discuss one point, since there is really only one you made. > making two displays work properly with correct aspect ratio and refresh rate What was missing from the Gnome display settings? I have all those options.

yarg 4y ago

For some, but most people aren't going to change away from the OS that their machines come configured with.

room505 4y ago

I can't get Revit or AutoCAD on Linux, so no.