2 ms·

It's been a long time since I read Democracy in America but one passage in particular has always stuck with me. It's where he contrasts New England (aka Vermon

It's been a long time since I read Democracy in America but one passage in particular has always stuck with me. It's where he contrasts New England (aka Vermont etc) with the South. He essentially says: - In New England, it's almost a Greek democracy b/c everyone is seen as equal and everyone is required to work together for the common good - In the South, they tried to recreate the aristocracy. That was only possible if there were multiple classes of society with the lowest class being the primary manual laborers. In other words, if you didn't have serfs then you needed slaves. Year later, I was reading a comparison of the US vs Argentina. Similar size, similar resources and similar weather yet vastly different outcomes politically and economically. The thesis of the comparison was that Argentina imported the Spanish aristocracy model whereas US had a more egalitarian model. It was interesting to see two somewhat similar comparisons made hundreds of years apart and coming to similar conclusions.

082349872349872 4y ago
I've been living in europe for the last couple of decades, and it's obviously been an even longer time since I read Democracy in America in american school, but the local culture seems a much better fit to what de Tocqueville was lauding (spontaneous self-organisation, etc). Was he just projecting? Or have the continents switched cultural places in the intervening centuries? (especially after Suez?)
- archgoon 4y ago
  [dead]
- sixo 4y ago
  Mostly converged to the same cultural place, but unevenly. That's the trend ever since the French revolution—France removed its aristocracy (though it kept coming back.) England basically weakened theirs to the point of redundancy, but kept it in a form. Russia kept theirs all the way until 1918 and then upheaved it all at once. The World Wars mostly wiped out whatever was left of the old world order. Sort of seems like Europe built a stronger immune system against the smell of hierarchy than the U.S. did, so the U.S. keeps inventing new caste systems e.g. Jim Crow.
  - courgette 4y ago
    Indeed. Another minor difference but I think it bears fruits : Excessive wealth is still kinda view suspiciously in Europe. As in “in you are that rich, we are in different world and I suspect you don’t have my best interest in mind or that you might be a closeted psychopath” While in the US, wealth indicate value of the individual and it radiate to morality and intrinsic capacity ( of the individual… )

082349872349872 4y ago

I've been living in europe for the last couple of decades, and it's obviously been an even longer time since I read Democracy in America in american school, but the local culture seems a much better fit to what de Tocqueville was lauding (spontaneous self-organisation, etc). Was he just projecting? Or have the continents switched cultural places in the intervening centuries? (especially after Suez?)

archgoon 4y ago
[dead]
sixo 4y ago
Mostly converged to the same cultural place, but unevenly. That's the trend ever since the French revolution—France removed its aristocracy (though it kept coming back.) England basically weakened theirs to the point of redundancy, but kept it in a form. Russia kept theirs all the way until 1918 and then upheaved it all at once. The World Wars mostly wiped out whatever was left of the old world order. Sort of seems like Europe built a stronger immune system against the smell of hierarchy than the U.S. did, so the U.S. keeps inventing new caste systems e.g. Jim Crow.
- courgette 4y ago
  Indeed. Another minor difference but I think it bears fruits : Excessive wealth is still kinda view suspiciously in Europe. As in “in you are that rich, we are in different world and I suspect you don’t have my best interest in mind or that you might be a closeted psychopath” While in the US, wealth indicate value of the individual and it radiate to morality and intrinsic capacity ( of the individual… )