4 ms·

What you quote is not especially scandalous. It uses the language of the time but is not wrong in that Europe essentially conquered the world and was factually

What you quote is not especially scandalous. It uses the language of the time but is not wrong in that Europe essentially conquered the world and was factually superior to everyone else at the time where in some places people still lived like in the iron age.

RedCondor 4y ago
It's very scandalous, but as I said, people will defend Tocqueville because they like what he says about them. Quid pro quo.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  I don't think that stating something broadly factual can be scandalous. The language is very dated but that's what happens after 200 years.
  - brookst 4y ago
    I think the person you're replying to is interpreting "superiority over all the other races" to mean moral / intrinsic superiority, and I think you're reading it as meaning superior economic / military power. I tend to agree with your reading.
    - RedCondor 4y ago
      >the individual, placed with us, by his vices and his ignorance, on the lowest step of society, is yet the first among savages. I think Tocqueville speaks very clearly for himself, and I don't how if there exist mental gymnastics dexterous enough to try to make this sentence mean anything other than what it clearly means.
      - brookst 4y ago
        Fair enough. I think you are either unaware that language changes over time, or choosing to pretend to be unaware to justify outrage. But you do you!
- prepend 4y ago
  I’m curious why you think it’s scandalous. Do you disagree that Europe was most powerful at the time of writing? I think it makes total sense to say this isn’t just or appropriate. But to say that Europe was powerful is not scandalous. The section seems written with humility and more of a theme of “I’m not sure why Europe is so powerful and luck is involved” than a more unpleasant version that could have said something like “Europe is the best because the rest of the world is a bunch of monkeys” but that’s not what he wrote.

RedCondor 4y ago

It's very scandalous, but as I said, people will defend Tocqueville because they like what he says about them. Quid pro quo.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
I don't think that stating something broadly factual can be scandalous. The language is very dated but that's what happens after 200 years.
- brookst 4y ago
  I think the person you're replying to is interpreting "superiority over all the other races" to mean moral / intrinsic superiority, and I think you're reading it as meaning superior economic / military power. I tend to agree with your reading.
  - RedCondor 4y ago
    >the individual, placed with us, by his vices and his ignorance, on the lowest step of society, is yet the first among savages. I think Tocqueville speaks very clearly for himself, and I don't how if there exist mental gymnastics dexterous enough to try to make this sentence mean anything other than what it clearly means.
    - brookst 4y ago
      Fair enough. I think you are either unaware that language changes over time, or choosing to pretend to be unaware to justify outrage. But you do you!
prepend 4y ago
I’m curious why you think it’s scandalous. Do you disagree that Europe was most powerful at the time of writing? I think it makes total sense to say this isn’t just or appropriate. But to say that Europe was powerful is not scandalous. The section seems written with humility and more of a theme of “I’m not sure why Europe is so powerful and luck is involved” than a more unpleasant version that could have said something like “Europe is the best because the rest of the world is a bunch of monkeys” but that’s not what he wrote.