4 ms·

> because the goals of the DSA align with Apple’s goals to protect consumers from illegal content. An interesting gambit. It sounds like they want to concede t

> because the goals of the DSA align with Apple’s goals to protect consumers from illegal content. An interesting gambit. It sounds like they want to concede to the regulators while using "illegal content" as the new boogeyman stopping people from freely using their device. The freedom-loving part of me wants the EU to push the DSA/DMA further, damning all the "content" boogeymen that exist. The realistic part of me knows that this is an amazing deal for the regulator, a literal Golden Apple if you will. Apple is signalling cooperation here, and attaching it to a "think of the children/terrorists" sentiment that most politicians will jump on. It's a damn good strategy, and would almost be impressive if it wasn't used in a desperate struggle to stop the user from installing F-Droid on iOS.

csomar 4y ago
It'll be interesting if the plot is twisted and instead the EU requires Google to limit Android to only Google Playstore.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  It would be a hell of a pivot, but kinda unlikely given how the AOSP exists.
- knaik94 4y ago
  That would imply that Amazon app store or Samsung app store apps are illegal content. While they are not as popular in the US, these alernate apps stores have existed for years on android without issue.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> The freedom-loving part of me wants the EU to push I'd expect that writing this phrase caused actual physical pain from the cognitive dissonance.
- madsbuch 4y ago
  Why? A big part of governance is to ensure individual freedom: Minimum salary, unions, etc. The comment seems to be perfectly congruent. (Though you have to accept a more ... European world view)
  - sib 4y ago
    Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom. If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I can't. If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I can't. As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero."
    - madsbuch 4y ago
      In Denmark we have no mandated minimum salary and no mandated unions. You are free to work for 1cent an hour, if you want. However, we do have the structures to balance power asymmetries. Most people are a part of a union and we do have a de-facto minimum salary (at around 20 USD). Would that be freedom enough for you?
      - sib 4y ago
        Sounds great. I've been to Denmark a number of times. Nice place :) As long as there's no requirement to join a union it's cool if they exist.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      It is possible to be free in a society that restricts some personal freedoms. The libertarian extremist model that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all, and it's mostly a testament to why we can't provide total personal or market freedom. Without being able to disincentivize bad behavior, everyone will race to the bottom regardless of altruistic intent.
      - brigandish 4y ago
        > The libertarian extremist model that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all Prior to Woodrow Wilson, and more explicitly prior to Franklin Roosevelt's four freedoms[1] (specifically, the 3rd and 4th), most (legal) liberty was of that kind. Whether that's better or worse is arguable, obviously, but it certainly counts as society. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms
- smoldesu 4y ago
  The freedom-loving part of me also cheers on the Right to Repair, even though it isn't a truly libertarian ideal. Is there a problem with that? Preserving individual freedom is what keeps the free market in check. It is precisely the thing stopping 1984 from being like 1984.
- owisd 4y ago
  It's a balancing act between the negative freedom to be allowed to manufacture and sell a locked down device VS the positive freedom to install whatever software you want on the devices that you buy. I know libertarians skew very much towards the negative end, but they don't get to gatekeep the word freedom.
- permo-w 4y ago
  it’s cognitively dissonant to believe that regulations cannot create freedom
heavyset_go 4y ago
Apple tried their hardest to make non-iPhones "pedo phones", and they'll do the same thing here. Non-App Store apps help terrorists, criminals, pedophiles, etc someone please think of the children.

csomar 4y ago

It'll be interesting if the plot is twisted and instead the EU requires Google to limit Android to only Google Playstore.

smoldesu 4y ago
It would be a hell of a pivot, but kinda unlikely given how the AOSP exists.
knaik94 4y ago
That would imply that Amazon app store or Samsung app store apps are illegal content. While they are not as popular in the US, these alernate apps stores have existed for years on android without issue.

rootusrootus 4y ago

> The freedom-loving part of me wants the EU to push I'd expect that writing this phrase caused actual physical pain from the cognitive dissonance.

madsbuch 4y ago
Why? A big part of governance is to ensure individual freedom: Minimum salary, unions, etc. The comment seems to be perfectly congruent. (Though you have to accept a more ... European world view)
- sib 4y ago
  Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom. If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I can't. If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I can't. As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero."
  - madsbuch 4y ago
    In Denmark we have no mandated minimum salary and no mandated unions. You are free to work for 1cent an hour, if you want. However, we do have the structures to balance power asymmetries. Most people are a part of a union and we do have a de-facto minimum salary (at around 20 USD). Would that be freedom enough for you?
    - sib 4y ago
      Sounds great. I've been to Denmark a number of times. Nice place :) As long as there's no requirement to join a union it's cool if they exist.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    It is possible to be free in a society that restricts some personal freedoms. The libertarian extremist model that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all, and it's mostly a testament to why we can't provide total personal or market freedom. Without being able to disincentivize bad behavior, everyone will race to the bottom regardless of altruistic intent.
    - brigandish 4y ago
      > The libertarian extremist model that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all Prior to Woodrow Wilson, and more explicitly prior to Franklin Roosevelt's four freedoms[1] (specifically, the 3rd and 4th), most (legal) liberty was of that kind. Whether that's better or worse is arguable, obviously, but it certainly counts as society. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms
smoldesu 4y ago
The freedom-loving part of me also cheers on the Right to Repair, even though it isn't a truly libertarian ideal. Is there a problem with that? Preserving individual freedom is what keeps the free market in check. It is precisely the thing stopping 1984 from being like 1984.
owisd 4y ago
It's a balancing act between the negative freedom to be allowed to manufacture and sell a locked down device VS the positive freedom to install whatever software you want on the devices that you buy. I know libertarians skew very much towards the negative end, but they don't get to gatekeep the word freedom.
permo-w 4y ago
it’s cognitively dissonant to believe that regulations cannot create freedom

heavyset_go 4y ago

Apple tried their hardest to make non-iPhones "pedo phones", and they'll do the same thing here. Non-App Store apps help terrorists, criminals, pedophiles, etc someone please think of the children.