4 ms·

Require? What are they going to do to people who don't do it? What paperwork are you going to have to fill out to get your open source project certified as co

by pg 18y ago

Require? What are they going to do to people who don't do it? What paperwork are you going to have to fill out to get your open source project certified as community service, so you don't have to spend the time picking up trash along the road instead?

burnout1540 18y ago
I imagine that public schools would be forced to add a community service requirement for graduating and that's about it. Oh no! The horror! What a commie! NOTE: Sarcasm not directed at previous comment.
- pg 18y ago
  It is actually pretty horrible, as it stands. For the kind of students who party their way through college, it would merely be a big waste of time. (Yes, waste. Forced community service always ends up going into lame make-work projects.) But for more earnest college students it would be a disaster. For the kids working their way through college, it would be a crushing burden to lose 2 1/2 weeks of fulltime work every year to government mandated projects. And for students who already spend their time on genuinely public minded projects, like open source, it would mean either (a) filling out a lot of paperwork to get the project certified, or (b) being yanked away from it for 100 hours a year, which is a large fraction of the time a college student can afford to spare for side projects.
  - tesseract 18y ago
    If (as other parts of the website seem to suggest) the policy is actually that you $4k tax credit if you choose to do the service, this isn't such a huge problem. If you have a job that pays more than $40/hr, don't quit it to do the service. If you don't have such a job, then figure out what your options for service are and decide whether $40/hr is sufficient motivation to get you to do them.
    - pg 18y ago
      The stuff about the tax credit wasn't there till a couple minutes ago. That changes everything, of course. Then it becomes just one of those make-work projects like e.g. Boston organizes during the summer to keep unemployable teenagers busy till school starts again.
      - tesseract 18y ago
        Tax credit info has been on a different page (http://change.gov/agenda/education/ http://change.gov/agenda/education/) for longer than that. It contradicted the info on the linked page and that contradiction was apparently resolved a few minutes ago.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Reactions: * 100 hours! Shocking! Tell it to the Israelis who, last I checked, didn't seem to have much of a problem building up a technology industry. * The nerd exceptionalism is wearing a bit thin. Open source is the best you can come up with? How about: (a) teaching, (b) improving technological infrastructure (testing and improving muni and state web applications, helping administer muni wifi), (c) collecting, refurbing, and recycling computing equipment? * Or for that matter: a large fraction of Obama's margin of victory came from mobilization of youth and first-time voters, and his overperformance of polls in Indiana are also attributable to the field operation: people wandering around towns in Indiana knocking on doors. Can't get more low-tech make-work than that. But that effort was disproportionately staffed with clueful, Internet-savvy college students. Lots of valuable work isn't sexy, but still benefits from smart people figuring out where when and how to do it right.
tdavis 18y ago
"Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year." Apparently, if you refuse, you don't get a tax break.
- rms 18y ago
  I think it's pretty damn reasonable. An incredibly good deal, even.
  - hugh 18y ago
    A good deal for whom?
    - rms 18y ago
      College students that make less than $40/hour after taxes yet pay exactly $4000 in taxes.
      - Xichekolas 18y ago
        The credit is fully refundable, so it amounts to getting paid $40/hr for a make-work project. I wonder if there are going to be limitations on that... I could definitely be a student for a few more years if it meant I got paid $40/hr to do what I'd normally volunteer to do anyway.
        rms 18y ago
        Fully refundable, meaning you get a check back from the government if you aren't paying enough taxes? Awesome, I can't wait for the handouts to begin.
        Xichekolas 18y ago
        Yep. It's a giant $40/hr work-study program. Considering my university only paid work-study kids about $6/hr, this will obviously be very popular.
pg 18y ago
FYI, here's what http://change.gov/americaserves/ http://change.gov/americaserves/ said 35 minutes ago: "The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year." (There was nothing about tax credits.)

by pg 18y ago

burnout1540 18y ago

I imagine that public schools would be forced to add a community service requirement for graduating and that's about it. Oh no! The horror! What a commie! NOTE: Sarcasm not directed at previous comment.

pg 18y ago
It is actually pretty horrible, as it stands. For the kind of students who party their way through college, it would merely be a big waste of time. (Yes, waste. Forced community service always ends up going into lame make-work projects.) But for more earnest college students it would be a disaster. For the kids working their way through college, it would be a crushing burden to lose 2 1/2 weeks of fulltime work every year to government mandated projects. And for students who already spend their time on genuinely public minded projects, like open source, it would mean either (a) filling out a lot of paperwork to get the project certified, or (b) being yanked away from it for 100 hours a year, which is a large fraction of the time a college student can afford to spare for side projects.
- tesseract 18y ago
  If (as other parts of the website seem to suggest) the policy is actually that you $4k tax credit if you choose to do the service, this isn't such a huge problem. If you have a job that pays more than $40/hr, don't quit it to do the service. If you don't have such a job, then figure out what your options for service are and decide whether $40/hr is sufficient motivation to get you to do them.
  - pg 18y ago
    The stuff about the tax credit wasn't there till a couple minutes ago. That changes everything, of course. Then it becomes just one of those make-work projects like e.g. Boston organizes during the summer to keep unemployable teenagers busy till school starts again.
    - tesseract 18y ago
      Tax credit info has been on a different page (http://change.gov/agenda/education/ http://change.gov/agenda/education/) for longer than that. It contradicted the info on the linked page and that contradiction was apparently resolved a few minutes ago.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 18y ago
  Reactions: * 100 hours! Shocking! Tell it to the Israelis who, last I checked, didn't seem to have much of a problem building up a technology industry. * The nerd exceptionalism is wearing a bit thin. Open source is the best you can come up with? How about: (a) teaching, (b) improving technological infrastructure (testing and improving muni and state web applications, helping administer muni wifi), (c) collecting, refurbing, and recycling computing equipment? * Or for that matter: a large fraction of Obama's margin of victory came from mobilization of youth and first-time voters, and his overperformance of polls in Indiana are also attributable to the field operation: people wandering around towns in Indiana knocking on doors. Can't get more low-tech make-work than that. But that effort was disproportionately staffed with clueful, Internet-savvy college students. Lots of valuable work isn't sexy, but still benefits from smart people figuring out where when and how to do it right.

tdavis 18y ago

"Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year." Apparently, if you refuse, you don't get a tax break.

rms 18y ago
I think it's pretty damn reasonable. An incredibly good deal, even.
- hugh 18y ago
  A good deal for whom?
  - rms 18y ago
    College students that make less than $40/hour after taxes yet pay exactly $4000 in taxes.
    - Xichekolas 18y ago
      The credit is fully refundable, so it amounts to getting paid $40/hr for a make-work project. I wonder if there are going to be limitations on that... I could definitely be a student for a few more years if it meant I got paid $40/hr to do what I'd normally volunteer to do anyway.
      - rms 18y ago
        Fully refundable, meaning you get a check back from the government if you aren't paying enough taxes? Awesome, I can't wait for the handouts to begin.
        Xichekolas 18y ago
        Yep. It's a giant $40/hr work-study program. Considering my university only paid work-study kids about $6/hr, this will obviously be very popular.

pg 18y ago

FYI, here's what http://change.gov/americaserves/ http://change.gov/americaserves/ said 35 minutes ago: "The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year." (There was nothing about tax credits.)