5 ms·

If we have to go back to 4 or 5nm processors for a while, it won't be the end of the world.

by brink 3y ago

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Europe doesn't have 4 and 5 nm fabs on its soil nor European owned fabs aboard. GloFo Dresden goes down to 22nm.
- vonzepp 3y ago
  Smallest probably 7nm Intel in Ireland. Not sure it is online yet though
  - osnium123 3y ago
    Intel Ireland (Fab 24/34) will be producing Intel 4 and 3, which is an EUV based node
    - terminalcommand 3y ago
      So potentially they could even go to finer architectures?
  - worrycue 3y ago
    Intel has stopped using "nm" - it's meaningless anyway; hasn't been meaningful since 1994 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_device_fabrication#Feature_size https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_device_fabricati...). Now it's just Intel 7 (currently in use), Intel 4 (successor to Intel 7 for internal use) and Intel 3 (based off Intel 4 for their foundry services).
- eis 3y ago
  Intels Fab 24 in Ireland does 14nm at least. But yea, Europe really missed the boat hard on chip manufacturing even though they have ASML sitting in the Netherlands. Actually they already were in the game with several fabs. And then there was ARM. Feels like they not just missed the boat but mismanaged and then sold it for scraps while they could have had a realistic shot of being at the top of the game. Sigh.
  - foobarian 3y ago
    Wonder why that is. Is it too easy to move abroad where the money is way better?
    - arethuza 3y ago
      ASML who makes the EUV machines and Carl Zeiss who make the optics for the ASML machines are both in Europe?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - foobarian 3y ago
        Exactly, so why are the leading foundries also not there?
    - Gasp0de 3y ago
      America and Asia have cheaper labor and energy although I don't know how much of an advantage that really is for such a highly complex product.
    - eis 3y ago
      Taiwan made the foundry business a strategic priority for multiple reasons. Intel at least for the US was always a business with national security impact. Europe never realized the importance and didn't make it anywhere near priority. They did not provide enough on-going incentives nor did they protect their companies from being sold to foreign ones. Instead the companies jumped hard on the outsourcing train and pushed as much manufacturing abroad as possible. This was a very shortsighted move that temporarily increased profits but traded the future for it. When nation-states put their weight behind something then it's nearly impossible to compete unless your own nation-state puts their weight behind you as well. There is still some chance for Europe to come back into it but I have doubts they'll find the will to do it.
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      There is a really good video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZdmS-EAbHo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZdmS-EAbHo
- hardware2win 3y ago
  Modern fab is being built in Germany by Intel iirc
  - konschubert 3y ago
    Maybe

If we have to go back to 4 or 5nm processors for a while, it won't be the end of the world.

by brink 3y ago

If we have to go back to 4 or 5nm processors for a while, it won't be the end of the world.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

Europe doesn't have 4 and 5 nm fabs on its soil nor European owned fabs aboard. GloFo Dresden goes down to 22nm.

vonzepp 3y ago
Smallest probably 7nm Intel in Ireland. Not sure it is online yet though
- osnium123 3y ago
  Intel Ireland (Fab 24/34) will be producing Intel 4 and 3, which is an EUV based node
  - terminalcommand 3y ago
    So potentially they could even go to finer architectures?
- worrycue 3y ago
  Intel has stopped using "nm" - it's meaningless anyway; hasn't been meaningful since 1994 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_device_fabrication#Feature_size https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_device_fabricati...). Now it's just Intel 7 (currently in use), Intel 4 (successor to Intel 7 for internal use) and Intel 3 (based off Intel 4 for their foundry services).
eis 3y ago
Intels Fab 24 in Ireland does 14nm at least. But yea, Europe really missed the boat hard on chip manufacturing even though they have ASML sitting in the Netherlands. Actually they already were in the game with several fabs. And then there was ARM. Feels like they not just missed the boat but mismanaged and then sold it for scraps while they could have had a realistic shot of being at the top of the game. Sigh.
- foobarian 3y ago
  Wonder why that is. Is it too easy to move abroad where the money is way better?
  - arethuza 3y ago
    ASML who makes the EUV machines and Carl Zeiss who make the optics for the ASML machines are both in Europe?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - foobarian 3y ago
      Exactly, so why are the leading foundries also not there?
  - Gasp0de 3y ago
    America and Asia have cheaper labor and energy although I don't know how much of an advantage that really is for such a highly complex product.
  - eis 3y ago
    Taiwan made the foundry business a strategic priority for multiple reasons. Intel at least for the US was always a business with national security impact. Europe never realized the importance and didn't make it anywhere near priority. They did not provide enough on-going incentives nor did they protect their companies from being sold to foreign ones. Instead the companies jumped hard on the outsourcing train and pushed as much manufacturing abroad as possible. This was a very shortsighted move that temporarily increased profits but traded the future for it. When nation-states put their weight behind something then it's nearly impossible to compete unless your own nation-state puts their weight behind you as well. There is still some chance for Europe to come back into it but I have doubts they'll find the will to do it.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    There is a really good video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZdmS-EAbHo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZdmS-EAbHo
hardware2win 3y ago
Modern fab is being built in Germany by Intel iirc
- konschubert 3y ago
  Maybe