3 ms·

Because you can go to prison for saying things.

by euresident 3y ago

gambiting 3y ago
You can in US as well, even the 1st amendment only protects you so far. We just disagree with where that line lies.
- hartator 3y ago
  That’s not true. You can say f* Trump or f* Biden all you want online or outside. That’s not the case in France for example. [Edit] Ref: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-163820283.html https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...
  - concordDance 3y ago
    That's news to me. Got a citation or example?
  - peoplefromibiza 3y ago
    not true since long time ago https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren... also: most EU countries have laws that protect public speech and especially people's representatives from being prosecuted for expressing their opinions.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    How is that not true? Yes you can say fuck trump or fuck biden(why are you self censoring yourself on the internet btw), but you can't say "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" to a police officer - you will be arrested and put in prison even if you were "just saying things". Your freedom of speech isn't absolute. For other examples - several states made it illegal for journalists to report on violations on farms, to protect their own industries. >>That’s not the case in France for example. I'm pretty sure you can say fuck trump or fuck biden in France and nothing would happen to you, in public or otherwise. you picked a poor example though, insulting the French head of state hasn't been a crime for a decade now: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren...
    - hartator 3y ago
      Well go on and insult an EU country leader here. :)
      - gambiting 3y ago
        Are you.....under the impression that French laws apply in all of EU or something?
        hartator 3y ago
        It’s actually how the EU mostly work. Country members do still most of law and merge upstream. GDPR for example originated from the CNIL which is French. And contain things that restrict freedom of speech at an EU level. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/eu-alphabet-privacy-idCNL5N26A4OG https://www.reuters.com/article/eu-alphabet-privacy-idCNL5N2...
        gambiting 3y ago
        No it isn't. Not in the slightest sense, I have no idea where you're getting your info from, that's literally not how the EU lawmaking works.
- euresident 3y ago
  [flagged]
kranke155 3y ago
Conveniently, this account was literally just registered to make this comment. I’m increasingly convinced that LLMs are being used to spread propaganda
- euresident 3y ago
  [flagged]
rvense 3y ago
Which things?
- poszlem 3y ago
  In Poland you cannot insult the president: https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulting-president-andrzej-duda-poland-moron/#:~:text=Polish%20law%20makes%20insulting%20the,to%20three%20years%20in%20prison https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulti.... You can also go in jail for "insult to religious feelings". In the UK people get fined for offensive tweets, including saying things like "men are not women". In France people are facing trials for insulting Macron: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-163820283.html https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...
  - peoplefromibiza 3y ago
    In US you can go to jail for being black or not following police officers orders or responding to them in a way they do not like, or talking to them, or taking pictures of them. And they can shoot you. Just like any authoritarian police state. EDIT: freedom of speech is not related only to offending the president or saying good things about Hitler, it also mean I can talk and eventually argue with a police officer in EU without worrying that they will arrest me or shoot me. It means I can take a picture of a firemen's truck without the camera being seized by the police (it happened to me in Florida) and no way of talking to them that there's no need to abuse of their power, you can actually delete photos from cameras. etc etc authoritarianism and control works best when it's not in the law, but in the people habits.
    - euresident 3y ago
      Great, but we are talking about Europe, can't you read?
poszlem 3y ago
To add to this comment which is unfairly downvoted, some example of laws in Europe that I collected over the years: France's "hate speech" laws, which prohibit speech that is deemed to be insulting, threatening, or discriminatory on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or sexual orientation. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France) Germany's NetzDG law, which requires social media platforms to remove content that is deemed to be hate speech or fake news within 24 hours of being notified. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act) The United Kingdom's Official Secrets Act, which makes it a criminal offense to disclose certain types of information deemed to be sensitive to national security. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act) Spain's "gag law," which restricts protests and demonstrations, and imposes fines for offenses such as insulting police officers. (source: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/3/1/spanish-gag-law-the-original-sin-and-ongoing-penance https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/3/1/spanish-gag-law-...) Hungary's law against promoting migration, which criminalizes the publication or broadcast of materials that are deemed to promote illegal migration. (source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/hungary-passes-anti-immigrant-stop-soros-laws https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/hungary-passes...) Belgium's Holocaust denial law, which makes it a criminal offense to publicly deny, minimize, or justify the Holocaust. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Holocaust_denial_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Holocaust_denial_law) Sweden's "hets mot folkgrupp" law, which prohibits speech that is deemed to be hate speech or incitement to violence against certain groups of people, such as ethnic minorities or LGBT individuals. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_Action_League_of_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_Action_League_of_S...) Italy's "Lodo Alfano" law, which made it a criminal offense to publish transcripts of intercepted conversations, even if they exposed wrongdoing by public officials. (repealed) Greece's "insulting the state" law, which makes it a criminal offense to insult the Greek flag, national anthem, or state symbols. Austria's law against defamation of religions, which makes it a criminal offense to insult or denigrate the religious beliefs of others. (source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/24739183 https://www.jstor.org/stable/24739183) Finland's law against ethnic agitation, which prohibits speech that is deemed to incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of ethnicity or national origin.(source: https://poliisi.fi/en/hate-crimes https://poliisi.fi/en/hate-crimes) Poland's "Holocaust law," which criminalizes the attribution of Nazi crimes to the Polish state or people. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendment_to_the_Act_on_the_Institute_of_National_Remembrance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendment_to_the_Act_on_the_In...) Portugal's "apology for terrorism" law, which makes it a criminal offense to justify, glorify, or condone terrorism. Romania's law against insult and defamation, which imposes fines or imprisonment for speech that is deemed to insult, defame, or threaten individuals or groups. Slovakia's law against extremism, which prohibits the distribution of materials that promote extremist ideologies or activities. Switzerland's anti-racism law, which makes it a criminal offense to publicly incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, or religion. The Netherlands' law against discrimination, which prohibits speech or acts that are deemed to discriminate against individuals or groups on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or other characteristics. Norway's law against hate speech, which prohibits speech that is deemed to incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. (source: https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/equality-and-diversity/likestilling-og-inkludering/hate-speech-and-cyberhate/id2510986/ https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/equality-and-diversity/...) In Poland you cannot insult the president: https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulti https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulti.... You can also go in jail for "insult to religious feelings". (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offending_religious_feelings_(Poland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offending_religious_feelings_(...)

Because you can go to prison for saying things.

gambiting 3y ago

You can in US as well, even the 1st amendment only protects you so far. We just disagree with where that line lies.

hartator 3y ago
That’s not true. You can say f* Trump or f* Biden all you want online or outside. That’s not the case in France for example. [Edit] Ref: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-163820283.html https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...
- concordDance 3y ago
  That's news to me. Got a citation or example?
- peoplefromibiza 3y ago
  not true since long time ago https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren... also: most EU countries have laws that protect public speech and especially people's representatives from being prosecuted for expressing their opinions.
- gambiting 3y ago
  How is that not true? Yes you can say fuck trump or fuck biden(why are you self censoring yourself on the internet btw), but you can't say "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" to a police officer - you will be arrested and put in prison even if you were "just saying things". Your freedom of speech isn't absolute. For other examples - several states made it illegal for journalists to report on violations on farms, to protect their own industries. >>That’s not the case in France for example. I'm pretty sure you can say fuck trump or fuck biden in France and nothing would happen to you, in public or otherwise. you picked a poor example though, insulting the French head of state hasn't been a crime for a decade now: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren...
  - hartator 3y ago
    Well go on and insult an EU country leader here. :)
    - gambiting 3y ago
      Are you.....under the impression that French laws apply in all of EU or something?
      - hartator 3y ago
        It’s actually how the EU mostly work. Country members do still most of law and merge upstream. GDPR for example originated from the CNIL which is French. And contain things that restrict freedom of speech at an EU level. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/eu-alphabet-privacy-idCNL5N26A4OG https://www.reuters.com/article/eu-alphabet-privacy-idCNL5N2...
        gambiting 3y ago
        No it isn't. Not in the slightest sense, I have no idea where you're getting your info from, that's literally not how the EU lawmaking works.
euresident 3y ago
[flagged]

kranke155 3y ago

Conveniently, this account was literally just registered to make this comment. I’m increasingly convinced that LLMs are being used to spread propaganda

euresident 3y ago
[flagged]

rvense 3y ago

Which things?

poszlem 3y ago
In Poland you cannot insult the president: https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulting-president-andrzej-duda-poland-moron/#:~:text=Polish%20law%20makes%20insulting%20the,to%20three%20years%20in%20prison https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulti.... You can also go in jail for "insult to religious feelings". In the UK people get fined for offensive tweets, including saying things like "men are not women". In France people are facing trials for insulting Macron: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-163820283.html https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...
- peoplefromibiza 3y ago
  In US you can go to jail for being black or not following police officers orders or responding to them in a way they do not like, or talking to them, or taking pictures of them. And they can shoot you. Just like any authoritarian police state. EDIT: freedom of speech is not related only to offending the president or saying good things about Hitler, it also mean I can talk and eventually argue with a police officer in EU without worrying that they will arrest me or shoot me. It means I can take a picture of a firemen's truck without the camera being seized by the police (it happened to me in Florida) and no way of talking to them that there's no need to abuse of their power, you can actually delete photos from cameras. etc etc authoritarianism and control works best when it's not in the law, but in the people habits.
  - euresident 3y ago
    Great, but we are talking about Europe, can't you read?

poszlem 3y ago

To add to this comment which is unfairly downvoted, some example of laws in Europe that I collected over the years: France's "hate speech" laws, which prohibit speech that is deemed to be insulting, threatening, or discriminatory on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or sexual orientation. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_France) Germany's NetzDG law, which requires social media platforms to remove content that is deemed to be hate speech or fake news within 24 hours of being notified. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act) The United Kingdom's Official Secrets Act, which makes it a criminal offense to disclose certain types of information deemed to be sensitive to national security. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act) Spain's "gag law," which restricts protests and demonstrations, and imposes fines for offenses such as insulting police officers. (source: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/3/1/spanish-gag-law-the-original-sin-and-ongoing-penance https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/3/1/spanish-gag-law-...) Hungary's law against promoting migration, which criminalizes the publication or broadcast of materials that are deemed to promote illegal migration. (source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/hungary-passes-anti-immigrant-stop-soros-laws https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/hungary-passes...) Belgium's Holocaust denial law, which makes it a criminal offense to publicly deny, minimize, or justify the Holocaust. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Holocaust_denial_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Holocaust_denial_law) Sweden's "hets mot folkgrupp" law, which prohibits speech that is deemed to be hate speech or incitement to violence against certain groups of people, such as ethnic minorities or LGBT individuals. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_Action_League_of_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_Action_League_of_S...) Italy's "Lodo Alfano" law, which made it a criminal offense to publish transcripts of intercepted conversations, even if they exposed wrongdoing by public officials. (repealed) Greece's "insulting the state" law, which makes it a criminal offense to insult the Greek flag, national anthem, or state symbols. Austria's law against defamation of religions, which makes it a criminal offense to insult or denigrate the religious beliefs of others. (source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/24739183 https://www.jstor.org/stable/24739183) Finland's law against ethnic agitation, which prohibits speech that is deemed to incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of ethnicity or national origin.(source: https://poliisi.fi/en/hate-crimes https://poliisi.fi/en/hate-crimes) Poland's "Holocaust law," which criminalizes the attribution of Nazi crimes to the Polish state or people. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendment_to_the_Act_on_the_Institute_of_National_Remembrance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendment_to_the_Act_on_the_In...) Portugal's "apology for terrorism" law, which makes it a criminal offense to justify, glorify, or condone terrorism. Romania's law against insult and defamation, which imposes fines or imprisonment for speech that is deemed to insult, defame, or threaten individuals or groups. Slovakia's law against extremism, which prohibits the distribution of materials that promote extremist ideologies or activities. Switzerland's anti-racism law, which makes it a criminal offense to publicly incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, or religion. The Netherlands' law against discrimination, which prohibits speech or acts that are deemed to discriminate against individuals or groups on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or other characteristics. Norway's law against hate speech, which prohibits speech that is deemed to incite hatred or discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. (source: https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/equality-and-diversity/likestilling-og-inkludering/hate-speech-and-cyberhate/id2510986/ https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/equality-and-diversity/...) In Poland you cannot insult the president: https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulti https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-legal-jeopardy-insulti.... You can also go in jail for "insult to religious feelings". (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offending_religious_feelings_(Poland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offending_religious_feelings_(...)