5 ms·

Europe doesn’t have free speech because -

by kranke155 4y ago

hartator 4y ago
In most EU countries, you can’t publicly insult the country politicians.
- gambiting 4y ago
  That's absolutely not true, definitely not in the criminal sense. Politicians are always allowed to bring a civil suit against you over the things you've said, but the same is true in US.
  - hartator 4y ago
    It is criminal. > She stands accused of "insulting the president of the republic" and will stand trial on June 20 in Saint Omer, the prosecutor said.
    - kranke155 4y ago
      Where
    - gambiting 4y ago
      Who is "she"? What republic? Does one republic(whichever one that is) constitute the "most" of EU now?
- simon_o 4y ago
  Citation needed.
  - hartator 4y ago
    Ref: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-163820283.html https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      that's the right of every people here in EU. If you offend me (online or offline) I can sue you and you could face trial. It's called defamation. Nothing to see here. EDIT: insult here must be read using its most informal meaning (offense sufers the same destiny), not the legal one. We have different wording for the two circumstances "ingiuria" for the legal term which has been depenalisedd years ago and "insulto" to mean offending someone. Saying to someone "pedophile" is both an insult (a personal attack) and can be defamation, if the person is not a pedophile. The system is designed to be highly protective of the presumption of innocence, a judge must decide if the circumstances need to be solved in a trial by another judge or the case can be dismissed because there isn't enough substance to call it defamation. So every depiction of EU being swift to put people in jail for their opinions is highly exaggerated.
      - vr46 4y ago
        Everything you wrote is wrong. "Offending" someone is meaningless. Anyone can claim they were offended by anything, but that doesn't automatically make the thing illegal or injurious. Insults != defamation
xeonmc 4y ago
I am inexplicably reminded of the following great quote: > As an European it was always hard for me to understand American culture. What was fascinating for me is that they like bragging about their freedom which was weird for me, because I didn't think that I have any less freedom than them. I always thought 'What is the difference'. However after this game I finally understand it. NA is just so fucking free.
- gambiting 4y ago
  What game? Also, NA meaning North America? Why would Mexico and Canada be lumped into it, they don't have the same constitutional protections that USA gets.
  - jai_ 4y ago
    League of Legends originally. It's a popular copypasta that gets used in esports discussions whenever an EU team beats an NA team harshly. "NA" as term in esports just refers to teams primarily based in the US or Canada.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - xeonmc 4y ago
    Source: [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/76bemv/tiebreaker_2017_world_championship_group_d/docopy4/ https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/76bemv/tie...
- SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
  What's the game that quote refers to?
  - tempay 4y ago
    It's a copypasta, from wikipedia: > A copypasta is a block of text that is copied and pasted across the Internet by individuals through online forums and social networking websites. Copypastas are said to be similar to spam as they are often used to annoy other users and disrupt online discourse.
euresident 4y ago
Because you can go to prison for saying things.
- gambiting 4y ago
  You can in US as well, even the 1st amendment only protects you so far. We just disagree with where that line lies.
  - hartator 4y ago
    That’s not true. You can say f* Trump or f* Biden all you want online or outside. That’s not the case in France for example. [Edit] Ref: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-163820283.html https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...
    - concordDance 4y ago
      That's news to me. Got a citation or example?
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      not true since long time ago https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren... also: most EU countries have laws that protect public speech and especially people's representatives from being prosecuted for expressing their opinions.
    - gambiting 4y ago
      How is that not true? Yes you can say fuck trump or fuck biden(why are you self censoring yourself on the internet btw), but you can't say "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" to a police officer - you will be arrested and put in prison even if you were "just saying things". Your freedom of speech isn't absolute. For other examples - several states made it illegal for journalists to report on violations on farms, to protect their own industries. >>That’s not the case in France for example. I'm pretty sure you can say fuck trump or fuck biden in France and nothing would happen to you, in public or otherwise. you picked a poor example though, insulting the French head of state hasn't been a crime for a decade now: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren...
bwesz 4y ago
October, 2018: "In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-free-speech-criticize-muhammad-echr-ruled/574174/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...
- kranke155 4y ago
  Another account created 3 hours ago. Very interesting
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - f6v 4y ago
    It’s like telling someone “your opinion doesn’t matter cause you’re ugly/old/young”. A post is either relevant or not, regardless of when account was created.
    - kranke155 4y ago
      On this thread there are multiple accounts created in the last few hours
      - weissbier 4y ago
        I don't see the relevance of the account age as long as the person is engaging in a healthy discussion. However, I have noticed that in other comment sections, such as those on „Der Spiegel“, some people attempt to dismiss the opinions of users with recently created accounts as well.
- pwgentleman 4y ago
  That's maybe part of a more general "perceived inability of some Muslims to handle polemics against their religion with grace" (from the article). Searching for "bobblehead Jesus" vs "bobblehead Mohammed" on Amazon is a good example of that. The more disturbing issue is the ECHR's ruling.
concordDance 4y ago
Well anti-hate speech legislation is pretty common in Europe while the USA doesn't have such a thing.
astura 4y ago
I was in Scotland (pre-Brexit) watching a UK tv show about the KKK in America. When they were distributing pamphlets the narrator explains that what they were doing was legal in America because of the US Constitution guarantees free speech whereas in the UK inciting racial hate is a crime.

Europe doesn’t have free speech because -

hartator 4y ago

In most EU countries, you can’t publicly insult the country politicians.

gambiting 4y ago
That's absolutely not true, definitely not in the criminal sense. Politicians are always allowed to bring a civil suit against you over the things you've said, but the same is true in US.
- hartator 4y ago
  It is criminal. > She stands accused of "insulting the president of the republic" and will stand trial on June 20 in Saint Omer, the prosecutor said.
  - kranke155 4y ago
    Where
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Who is "she"? What republic? Does one republic(whichever one that is) constitute the "most" of EU now?
simon_o 4y ago
Citation needed.
- hartator 4y ago
  Ref: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-163820283.html https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    that's the right of every people here in EU. If you offend me (online or offline) I can sue you and you could face trial. It's called defamation. Nothing to see here. EDIT: insult here must be read using its most informal meaning (offense sufers the same destiny), not the legal one. We have different wording for the two circumstances "ingiuria" for the legal term which has been depenalisedd years ago and "insulto" to mean offending someone. Saying to someone "pedophile" is both an insult (a personal attack) and can be defamation, if the person is not a pedophile. The system is designed to be highly protective of the presumption of innocence, a judge must decide if the circumstances need to be solved in a trial by another judge or the case can be dismissed because there isn't enough substance to call it defamation. So every depiction of EU being swift to put people in jail for their opinions is highly exaggerated.
    - vr46 4y ago
      Everything you wrote is wrong. "Offending" someone is meaningless. Anyone can claim they were offended by anything, but that doesn't automatically make the thing illegal or injurious. Insults != defamation

xeonmc 4y ago

I am inexplicably reminded of the following great quote: > As an European it was always hard for me to understand American culture. What was fascinating for me is that they like bragging about their freedom which was weird for me, because I didn't think that I have any less freedom than them. I always thought 'What is the difference'. However after this game I finally understand it. NA is just so fucking free.

gambiting 4y ago
What game? Also, NA meaning North America? Why would Mexico and Canada be lumped into it, they don't have the same constitutional protections that USA gets.
- jai_ 4y ago
  League of Legends originally. It's a popular copypasta that gets used in esports discussions whenever an EU team beats an NA team harshly. "NA" as term in esports just refers to teams primarily based in the US or Canada.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- xeonmc 4y ago
  Source: [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/76bemv/tiebreaker_2017_world_championship_group_d/docopy4/ https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/76bemv/tie...
SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
What's the game that quote refers to?
- tempay 4y ago
  It's a copypasta, from wikipedia: > A copypasta is a block of text that is copied and pasted across the Internet by individuals through online forums and social networking websites. Copypastas are said to be similar to spam as they are often used to annoy other users and disrupt online discourse.

euresident 4y ago

Because you can go to prison for saying things.

gambiting 4y ago
You can in US as well, even the 1st amendment only protects you so far. We just disagree with where that line lies.
- hartator 4y ago
  That’s not true. You can say f* Trump or f* Biden all you want online or outside. That’s not the case in France for example. [Edit] Ref: https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-163820283.html https://news.yahoo.com/french-woman-faces-trial-insulting-16...
  - concordDance 4y ago
    That's news to me. Got a citation or example?
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    not true since long time ago https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren... also: most EU countries have laws that protect public speech and especially people's representatives from being prosecuted for expressing their opinions.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    How is that not true? Yes you can say fuck trump or fuck biden(why are you self censoring yourself on the internet btw), but you can't say "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" to a police officer - you will be arrested and put in prison even if you were "just saying things". Your freedom of speech isn't absolute. For other examples - several states made it illegal for journalists to report on violations on farms, to protect their own industries. >>That’s not the case in France for example. I'm pretty sure you can say fuck trump or fuck biden in France and nothing would happen to you, in public or otherwise. you picked a poor example though, insulting the French head of state hasn't been a crime for a decade now: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-french-president-criminal-offence https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/25/insulting-fren...

bwesz 4y ago

October, 2018: "In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-free-speech-criticize-muhammad-echr-ruled/574174/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...

kranke155 4y ago
Another account created 3 hours ago. Very interesting
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- f6v 4y ago
  It’s like telling someone “your opinion doesn’t matter cause you’re ugly/old/young”. A post is either relevant or not, regardless of when account was created.
  - kranke155 4y ago
    On this thread there are multiple accounts created in the last few hours
    - weissbier 4y ago
      I don't see the relevance of the account age as long as the person is engaging in a healthy discussion. However, I have noticed that in other comment sections, such as those on „Der Spiegel“, some people attempt to dismiss the opinions of users with recently created accounts as well.
pwgentleman 4y ago
That's maybe part of a more general "perceived inability of some Muslims to handle polemics against their religion with grace" (from the article). Searching for "bobblehead Jesus" vs "bobblehead Mohammed" on Amazon is a good example of that. The more disturbing issue is the ECHR's ruling.

concordDance 4y ago

Well anti-hate speech legislation is pretty common in Europe while the USA doesn't have such a thing.

astura 4y ago

I was in Scotland (pre-Brexit) watching a UK tv show about the KKK in America. When they were distributing pamphlets the narrator explains that what they were doing was legal in America because of the US Constitution guarantees free speech whereas in the UK inciting racial hate is a crime.