4 ms·

Take a look at the chart you provided "Prevalences of various conditions that have been called intersex" Why does it have a "Sex specificity" column? Why does

Take a look at the chart you provided "Prevalences of various conditions that have been called intersex" Why does it have a "Sex specificity" column? Why does it contain the words male and female?

jackmott42 4y ago
that column also contains the word "none" in some cases. And in either case it is all just a judgement call people made for the conditions. The semantic sparring over sex and gender has a pretty simple compromise, that people who want to say it is a spectrum and people who want to say it is binary should be able to agree on and be happy with: it is a bimodal distribution of course the problem is that is a nuanced idea and humans can't handle nuance. Maybe you can, and I can, but WE as a human group can't. We prefer to drive ourselves literally insane over the semantic argument. oh well.
- flippinburgers 4y ago
  The idea has always been that it is essentially binary with edge cases.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    "Always" to whom? There are countless cultures out there - both historical and contemporary - with non-binary interpretations of sex and/or gender.
    - flippinburgers 4y ago
      First of all there are definitely a countable number of cultures... secondly ... well rolf.
      - yellowapple 4y ago
        I mean, yes, the number of cultures is probably mathematically countable, but considering how quickly they split and merge and mix and such (and have been doing so for likely the entirety of human existence), do you really think it would be practical to do so? ;)
- plob 4y ago
  If sex can be plotted as a bimodal distribution, then what do you believe is on the y-axis, and how do you measure this variable?
- digging 4y ago
  > it is a bimodal distribution this isn't something that most people are familiar with, especially people who tend to see things in binaries (not because they're stupid, but because they're trained to see the world in binaries, because it's the simplest classification system which makes it easy to manipulate by politicians and media).
defrost 4y ago
Australia, the country I live in, has an official passport that has for Sex: the valid responses M | F | X. The reason for that is the actual verifiable existance of people who were born here clearly, scientifically, medically as neither M NOR F. They are valid exceptions to the above quote from the Nye program and there are enough people born this way to number in the thousands in a country of some ~ 23 milllion or so. The passport system was changed as a citizen of this country fronted and objected to having enter M or F when they were born clearly neither. As someone with a science background who measures and models reality I approve of systems that track the world and its elements as it is and as they are .. rather than models that force a world view that doesn't match reality.
- houstonn 4y ago
  Sad to hear that a country is anti-science. As Richard Dawkins recently clarified, "As a biologist, there are 2 sexes. And that's all there is to it." It's binary and there is no exception. People that claim otherwise are confused.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    I believe there are cases of people being born with a set of sex chromosomes that are different from XY and XX. This is what your parent commenter is referring to and I fail to see how it's a valid point ("anti-science"), on the particular topic of determining biological sex in people. If one wants to make a simple statement that encompasses the largest group of people they might say, "There are 2 sexes." If they want to make a more complex statement that encompasses all humans they might add a qualifier such that they instead say, "There are 2 typical sexes." That "typical" adds a whole lot of complexity in order to generalize the statement.
    - illiopq 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago

Take a look at the chart you provided "Prevalences of various conditions that have been called intersex" Why does it have a "Sex specificity" column? Why does it contain the words male and female?

jackmott42 4y ago

that column also contains the word "none" in some cases. And in either case it is all just a judgement call people made for the conditions. The semantic sparring over sex and gender has a pretty simple compromise, that people who want to say it is a spectrum and people who want to say it is binary should be able to agree on and be happy with: it is a bimodal distribution of course the problem is that is a nuanced idea and humans can't handle nuance. Maybe you can, and I can, but WE as a human group can't. We prefer to drive ourselves literally insane over the semantic argument. oh well.

flippinburgers 4y ago
The idea has always been that it is essentially binary with edge cases.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- yellowapple 4y ago
  "Always" to whom? There are countless cultures out there - both historical and contemporary - with non-binary interpretations of sex and/or gender.
  - flippinburgers 4y ago
    First of all there are definitely a countable number of cultures... secondly ... well rolf.
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      I mean, yes, the number of cultures is probably mathematically countable, but considering how quickly they split and merge and mix and such (and have been doing so for likely the entirety of human existence), do you really think it would be practical to do so? ;)
plob 4y ago
If sex can be plotted as a bimodal distribution, then what do you believe is on the y-axis, and how do you measure this variable?
digging 4y ago
> it is a bimodal distribution this isn't something that most people are familiar with, especially people who tend to see things in binaries (not because they're stupid, but because they're trained to see the world in binaries, because it's the simplest classification system which makes it easy to manipulate by politicians and media).

defrost 4y ago

Australia, the country I live in, has an official passport that has for Sex: the valid responses M | F | X. The reason for that is the actual verifiable existance of people who were born here clearly, scientifically, medically as neither M NOR F. They are valid exceptions to the above quote from the Nye program and there are enough people born this way to number in the thousands in a country of some ~ 23 milllion or so. The passport system was changed as a citizen of this country fronted and objected to having enter M or F when they were born clearly neither. As someone with a science background who measures and models reality I approve of systems that track the world and its elements as it is and as they are .. rather than models that force a world view that doesn't match reality.

houstonn 4y ago
Sad to hear that a country is anti-science. As Richard Dawkins recently clarified, "As a biologist, there are 2 sexes. And that's all there is to it." It's binary and there is no exception. People that claim otherwise are confused.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  I believe there are cases of people being born with a set of sex chromosomes that are different from XY and XX. This is what your parent commenter is referring to and I fail to see how it's a valid point ("anti-science"), on the particular topic of determining biological sex in people. If one wants to make a simple statement that encompasses the largest group of people they might say, "There are 2 sexes." If they want to make a more complex statement that encompasses all humans they might add a qualifier such that they instead say, "There are 2 typical sexes." That "typical" adds a whole lot of complexity in order to generalize the statement.
  - illiopq 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago