4 ms·

Is there an estimate on how many COBOL jobs are out there still? And are there still apprenticeship/training programs for learning COBOL?

by mikece 4y ago

fatneckbeard 4y ago
i know a system that runs cobol. but there are like 4 or 5 other systems on top of it, some of them use XML, some html, some asp, some java, some vba, some c#. i dont really understand the concept of a "x language job". like jobs tend to need people to learn systems and domain language, and be problem solvers, and communicators, coordinators, testers, the actual computer language is kind of irrelevant. like i cannot fathom there is a job out there where someone just hacks cobol all day and thats all they do.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  That's my experience. I've actually been around systems that use Cobol amongst other things for 20 years (only did tiniest bit myself) but the developers tend to be experts in business as well - like, this set of Cobol programs are for payroll, and the developers understand payroll processing. They can discuss legislative nuances and taxation and benefits and deductions with functional analysts. Basically, all Cobol I've ever seen is firmly performing a business / functional task. I guess it's in the name :-)
- Frummy 4y ago
  The problem is that the "cobol language job" is really a mainframe job which means an operating system that is from a completely alien parallell reality that diverged from the rest of the timeline 60 years ago. So it's not a cobol job, it's a relearn computing from the ground up again job. I'm exaggerating but it's a complete nervous system shock until one acclimates to the zOS paradigm.
  - sneed_chucker 4y ago
    Do you speak from experience? Honestly, I find the whole mainframe world fascinating. Would love to learn more.
    - Frummy 4y ago
      Yes I maintain two systems on the mainframe been doing it for 8 months feel free to ask questions
- ralph0 4y ago
  Apparently, an "x language job" was a well-known concept from the "before times." ;-) I'll always vividly remember this article from the days when I began to become entranced with IT Tech stuff... http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/9712.htm http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/9712.htm I was getting into Linux around then too so I devoured Litt's site. Shortly after I read this my cobol-programming neighbor (worked for CapOne) was laid off. As far as I know he never returned to Cobol programming (unless he managed to snag something during covid).
- 0x445442 4y ago
  I’d like to know these places you speak of because every single time I’ve applied for a job in the past ~15 years where I didn’t have explicit experience in the specific programming language that was specified, I failed to get the job. A lot of those that I applied for I had significant domain knowledge as well. In fact I can’t even think of a time I got further than an introductory phone call.
  - anonzzzies 4y ago
    But that is because HR people and recruiters generally don’t know anything about anything tech. They cannot filter resumes on anything vague, so programming language is an easy one. But gp is right; once you are in, the language is mostly irrelevant, unless the company is small and/or their business is selling or maintaining actual tech products.
Frummy 4y ago
Just wanted to say I wrote a whole fermi estimate reply for the amount of jobs in the world until I realized you meant as in getting paid for work and not as in JCL files you can submit to run cobol programs.
kjs3 4y ago
No idea how many jobs. Places that use it extensively usually have apprenticeships and/or training. $DAYJOB does (big financial firm). There are even some mainframe/COBOL college programs.
- rbanffy 4y ago
  I always find it amusing that the least sexy of languages runs on the sexiest systems. A modern mainframe is a thing to behold.
  - pagnol 4y ago
    Do you mind expanding a bit?
    - tapland 4y ago
      https://www.thegreengrid.org/ja/newsroom/blog/making-ibm-magic-%E2%80%9Csword-art-online-movie%E2%80%9D https://www.thegreengrid.org/ja/newsroom/blog/making-ibm-mag... https://www.ibm.com/z https://www.ibm.com/z https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainframe_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainframe_computer
      - rbanffy 4y ago
        They lost a bit of their glam when moved from 24" racks to 19" ones so that the datacenter people could hide these beauties in warehouse sized facilities instead of being proudly displayed at corporate headquarters ;-)
  - kragen 4y ago
    tianhe-1, cerebras, the ga144, and the ambiq apollo4 do not generally run cobol
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      Meh. None of those has the weird multi-gigabyte L4 caches of a Telum. And none of them will continue working during an earthquake.

Is there an estimate on how many COBOL jobs are out there still? And are there still apprenticeship/training programs for learning COBOL?

by mikece 4y ago

Is there an estimate on how many COBOL jobs are out there still? And are there still apprenticeship/training programs for learning COBOL?

fatneckbeard 4y ago

i know a system that runs cobol. but there are like 4 or 5 other systems on top of it, some of them use XML, some html, some asp, some java, some vba, some c#. i dont really understand the concept of a "x language job". like jobs tend to need people to learn systems and domain language, and be problem solvers, and communicators, coordinators, testers, the actual computer language is kind of irrelevant. like i cannot fathom there is a job out there where someone just hacks cobol all day and thats all they do.

NikolaNovak 4y ago
That's my experience. I've actually been around systems that use Cobol amongst other things for 20 years (only did tiniest bit myself) but the developers tend to be experts in business as well - like, this set of Cobol programs are for payroll, and the developers understand payroll processing. They can discuss legislative nuances and taxation and benefits and deductions with functional analysts. Basically, all Cobol I've ever seen is firmly performing a business / functional task. I guess it's in the name :-)
Frummy 4y ago
The problem is that the "cobol language job" is really a mainframe job which means an operating system that is from a completely alien parallell reality that diverged from the rest of the timeline 60 years ago. So it's not a cobol job, it's a relearn computing from the ground up again job. I'm exaggerating but it's a complete nervous system shock until one acclimates to the zOS paradigm.
- sneed_chucker 4y ago
  Do you speak from experience? Honestly, I find the whole mainframe world fascinating. Would love to learn more.
  - Frummy 4y ago
    Yes I maintain two systems on the mainframe been doing it for 8 months feel free to ask questions
ralph0 4y ago
Apparently, an "x language job" was a well-known concept from the "before times." ;-) I'll always vividly remember this article from the days when I began to become entranced with IT Tech stuff... http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/9712.htm http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/9712.htm I was getting into Linux around then too so I devoured Litt's site. Shortly after I read this my cobol-programming neighbor (worked for CapOne) was laid off. As far as I know he never returned to Cobol programming (unless he managed to snag something during covid).
0x445442 4y ago
I’d like to know these places you speak of because every single time I’ve applied for a job in the past ~15 years where I didn’t have explicit experience in the specific programming language that was specified, I failed to get the job. A lot of those that I applied for I had significant domain knowledge as well. In fact I can’t even think of a time I got further than an introductory phone call.
- anonzzzies 4y ago
  But that is because HR people and recruiters generally don’t know anything about anything tech. They cannot filter resumes on anything vague, so programming language is an easy one. But gp is right; once you are in, the language is mostly irrelevant, unless the company is small and/or their business is selling or maintaining actual tech products.

Frummy 4y ago

Just wanted to say I wrote a whole fermi estimate reply for the amount of jobs in the world until I realized you meant as in getting paid for work and not as in JCL files you can submit to run cobol programs.

kjs3 4y ago

No idea how many jobs. Places that use it extensively usually have apprenticeships and/or training. $DAYJOB does (big financial firm). There are even some mainframe/COBOL college programs.

rbanffy 4y ago
I always find it amusing that the least sexy of languages runs on the sexiest systems. A modern mainframe is a thing to behold.
- pagnol 4y ago
  Do you mind expanding a bit?
  - tapland 4y ago
    https://www.thegreengrid.org/ja/newsroom/blog/making-ibm-magic-%E2%80%9Csword-art-online-movie%E2%80%9D https://www.thegreengrid.org/ja/newsroom/blog/making-ibm-mag... https://www.ibm.com/z https://www.ibm.com/z https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainframe_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainframe_computer
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      They lost a bit of their glam when moved from 24" racks to 19" ones so that the datacenter people could hide these beauties in warehouse sized facilities instead of being proudly displayed at corporate headquarters ;-)
- kragen 4y ago
  tianhe-1, cerebras, the ga144, and the ambiq apollo4 do not generally run cobol
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    Meh. None of those has the weird multi-gigabyte L4 caches of a Telum. And none of them will continue working during an earthquake.