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The problem with the “no-frills” proposition is that it’s loaded with frills, complexities, and decades of tech debt. Just installing dependencies for a Python

by pavlov 4y ago

The problem with the “no-frills” proposition is that it’s loaded with frills, complexities, and decades of tech debt. Just installing dependencies for a Python project can feel insurmountable. IMO JavaScript should be the default for any Python use case. It has the same deceptive veneer of beginner-friendly dynamic behavior, same kinds of footguns; but at least JS has a single package manager, much faster optimized engines, and you’d have to learn it for front-end work anyway so it has long-term dividends.

alex_suzuki 4y ago
One of things I really like about Python is the huge standard library. Contrary to JavaScript (which I think is a really weird recommendation), where you need to npm install half the world.
- nomdep 4y ago
  It wouldn’t matter if those dependencies where stable, but JS has a culture of abandon libraries or to make backward-breaking changes every week, so upgrading a project after just a few months is a major pain
  - DeathArrow 4y ago
    That's what I learned when I had to do front-end development using Angular: never upgrade packages.
- DeathArrow 4y ago
  And you never know if package Y required by package X will break the security of your app.
BeetleB 4y ago
Having used both Python and JS, the only real benefit the latter has it may be faster. The language has way too many gotchas. I wish they could shed all the legacy aspects to it. My experience with Python, along with many other folks, is that if we don't know something (API, syntax, etc), we often just guess it and it turns out to be right. Fairly intuitive. Agree with the other commenter: Using pip + venv tends to solve the majority of packaging problems. In my career I deal with a Python dependency headache once every few years. > and you’d have to learn it for front-end work anyway so it has long-term dividends. Except when you don't do front-end work ;-)
- nephanth 4y ago
  Poetry does a good job for package management
DeathArrow 4y ago
I've learned Javascript and a framework or two and I hate it with passion. I patiently wait for the moment in which we can manipulate DOM from within Weabassembly. Meanwhile I shamelessly push for Blazor for front-end, wherever I can.

by pavlov 4y ago

alex_suzuki 4y ago

One of things I really like about Python is the huge standard library. Contrary to JavaScript (which I think is a really weird recommendation), where you need to npm install half the world.

nomdep 4y ago
It wouldn’t matter if those dependencies where stable, but JS has a culture of abandon libraries or to make backward-breaking changes every week, so upgrading a project after just a few months is a major pain
- DeathArrow 4y ago
  That's what I learned when I had to do front-end development using Angular: never upgrade packages.
DeathArrow 4y ago
And you never know if package Y required by package X will break the security of your app.

BeetleB 4y ago

Having used both Python and JS, the only real benefit the latter has it may be faster. The language has way too many gotchas. I wish they could shed all the legacy aspects to it. My experience with Python, along with many other folks, is that if we don't know something (API, syntax, etc), we often just guess it and it turns out to be right. Fairly intuitive. Agree with the other commenter: Using pip + venv tends to solve the majority of packaging problems. In my career I deal with a Python dependency headache once every few years. > and you’d have to learn it for front-end work anyway so it has long-term dividends. Except when you don't do front-end work ;-)

nephanth 4y ago
Poetry does a good job for package management

DeathArrow 4y ago

I've learned Javascript and a framework or two and I hate it with passion. I patiently wait for the moment in which we can manipulate DOM from within Weabassembly. Meanwhile I shamelessly push for Blazor for front-end, wherever I can.