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Completely missing the mark here. Talking about education as part of the culture, is not also taking into account that African American communities were discrim

Completely missing the mark here. Talking about education as part of the culture, is not also taking into account that African American communities were discriminated over a long period of time and had their culture and ability to build wealth suppressed. Nigerians were colonized, it’s true, but African Americans were enslaved and then subject to Jim-Crow era laws in addition to the current-day legal regime, which no doubt influenced African American culture and neighborhoods and basically most aspects of life. If you look at Nigeria today, there are certainly many parts of Nigeria where “western education” is not valued. But when you look at Nigerians who immigrated to the US, you’re not seeing the representative Nigerian demographic, just a small (elite) slice. Additionally, you’re selecting out of the population when you just look at the minorities that were able to immigrate to the US. You should compare minorities that came to the US in representative chunks of the greater population — perhaps war refugees although even these communities have skews based on the nature of their immigration to the US.

rayiner 3y ago
I agree with your first point. As to your second, it’s notable that Nigerian Americans have greater mobility even than similarly educated whites: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23780231211001971 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23780231211001... (“Controlling for age, education, and disability, the wages of second-generation Nigerian Americans have reached parity with those of third- and higher generation whites.”)
- erenyeager 3y ago
  That is great for Nigerian Americans perhaps speaks also to other factors in their favor. Would be curious to see breakdowns in lineage. As for descendants of slaves in the US, please check out these lectures by Dr. Joy DeGruy-Leary, and her theory on Post-Traumatic Slave Syndrome. She did much research and readings into the history of American blacks and compared with other peoples. Her work focuses on how healing can occur after centuries of generational trauma. 1: https://youtu.be/g6H7gGUQIFs https://youtu.be/g6H7gGUQIFs Specifically, check out minutes 15:19 (bookmark “Systemic generational trauma” to 32:47 “Denigrating the Child”.) 2: https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8 https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8 This great talk on the history of slavery and Jim Crow in the US and explains how both black and white Americans have trauma leftover from the legacy of discrimination. Finally, as a desi person I must add that our (especially older) communities are often quick to deride and hold racism against African Americans. There is much belief in exceptionalism in immigrants to the US contrasted against the “failed” minorities. Well, as the child of immigrants, I anecdotally see that much of the success comes from a continuity and sense of belonging from family, values, religion, etc which while colonized, still maintain memories former glories. In contrast, American slaves were ripped out from their historical context and shipped transatlantic. So as the professor notes, talking about “culture” and saying “it’s their culture” is really a misnomer and attempt to distract from the very real trauma that continues to be inflicted.
  - JamesBarney 3y ago
    > Well, as the child of immigrants, I anecdotally see that much of the success comes from a continuity and sense of belonging from family, values, religion, etc Isn't this what most people would call culture?
    - erenyeager 3y ago
      Please take a look at the lectures, indeed culture is influential in individual behavior but culture is often used as a cover for more nefarious iniquities. Culture is often also a product of these. So when we talk about culture to dismiss why wealth gaps or injustices are important, then we are distracting from root causes.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    [flagged]
- pen2l 3y ago
  Culture in America goes hand-in-hand with socioeconomic status. A substantial portion of desis and Nigerians in America are of the highest economic class back in their respective homes, and they're coming from that culture. If that culture erodes as it can over generations, their social/economic mobility patterns start following that of the rest of Americans'. In America, today, in streets you can potentially see folks who lived in a time before the civil rights movement. It's an alarming contrast which is being overlooked: the immigrant Africans from moneyed and successful families and the other group couldn't drink from the same fountain as his fellow man, and not be able to send their kids to the good schools
  - rayiner 3y ago
    > Culture in America goes hand-in-hand with socioeconomic status. A substantial portion of desis and Nigerians in America are of the highest economic class back in their respective homes, and they're coming from that culture. If that culture erodes as it can over generations, their social/economic mobility patterns start following that of the rest of Americans'. I think most Americans would fight you on even that second sentence. Because that implies culture matters. And that maybe it would help Appalachians get out of multi-generational poverty if they absorbed culture from Nigerian immigrants. That aside, culture in America often doesn’t track with socioeconomic status. Many Chinese Americans, for example, came to California as laborers and the overtook white Californians. Vietnamese Americans came here as refugees and did the same. Asians have the highest poverty rate in NYC, but also dominate the selective admissions schools.

rayiner 3y ago

I agree with your first point. As to your second, it’s notable that Nigerian Americans have greater mobility even than similarly educated whites: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23780231211001971 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23780231211001... (“Controlling for age, education, and disability, the wages of second-generation Nigerian Americans have reached parity with those of third- and higher generation whites.”)

erenyeager 3y ago
That is great for Nigerian Americans perhaps speaks also to other factors in their favor. Would be curious to see breakdowns in lineage. As for descendants of slaves in the US, please check out these lectures by Dr. Joy DeGruy-Leary, and her theory on Post-Traumatic Slave Syndrome. She did much research and readings into the history of American blacks and compared with other peoples. Her work focuses on how healing can occur after centuries of generational trauma. 1: https://youtu.be/g6H7gGUQIFs https://youtu.be/g6H7gGUQIFs Specifically, check out minutes 15:19 (bookmark “Systemic generational trauma” to 32:47 “Denigrating the Child”.) 2: https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8 https://youtu.be/BGjSday7f_8 This great talk on the history of slavery and Jim Crow in the US and explains how both black and white Americans have trauma leftover from the legacy of discrimination. Finally, as a desi person I must add that our (especially older) communities are often quick to deride and hold racism against African Americans. There is much belief in exceptionalism in immigrants to the US contrasted against the “failed” minorities. Well, as the child of immigrants, I anecdotally see that much of the success comes from a continuity and sense of belonging from family, values, religion, etc which while colonized, still maintain memories former glories. In contrast, American slaves were ripped out from their historical context and shipped transatlantic. So as the professor notes, talking about “culture” and saying “it’s their culture” is really a misnomer and attempt to distract from the very real trauma that continues to be inflicted.
- JamesBarney 3y ago
  > Well, as the child of immigrants, I anecdotally see that much of the success comes from a continuity and sense of belonging from family, values, religion, etc Isn't this what most people would call culture?
  - erenyeager 3y ago
    Please take a look at the lectures, indeed culture is influential in individual behavior but culture is often used as a cover for more nefarious iniquities. Culture is often also a product of these. So when we talk about culture to dismiss why wealth gaps or injustices are important, then we are distracting from root causes.
- rayiner 3y ago
  [flagged]
pen2l 3y ago
Culture in America goes hand-in-hand with socioeconomic status. A substantial portion of desis and Nigerians in America are of the highest economic class back in their respective homes, and they're coming from that culture. If that culture erodes as it can over generations, their social/economic mobility patterns start following that of the rest of Americans'. In America, today, in streets you can potentially see folks who lived in a time before the civil rights movement. It's an alarming contrast which is being overlooked: the immigrant Africans from moneyed and successful families and the other group couldn't drink from the same fountain as his fellow man, and not be able to send their kids to the good schools
- rayiner 3y ago
  > Culture in America goes hand-in-hand with socioeconomic status. A substantial portion of desis and Nigerians in America are of the highest economic class back in their respective homes, and they're coming from that culture. If that culture erodes as it can over generations, their social/economic mobility patterns start following that of the rest of Americans'. I think most Americans would fight you on even that second sentence. Because that implies culture matters. And that maybe it would help Appalachians get out of multi-generational poverty if they absorbed culture from Nigerian immigrants. That aside, culture in America often doesn’t track with socioeconomic status. Many Chinese Americans, for example, came to California as laborers and the overtook white Californians. Vietnamese Americans came here as refugees and did the same. Asians have the highest poverty rate in NYC, but also dominate the selective admissions schools.