3 ms·

this take is a little bit too simplistic. There are use-cases where you are bound to a web-based framework but JS solutions are just not fast enough, e.g. data

this take is a little bit too simplistic. There are use-cases where you are bound to a web-based framework but JS solutions are just not fast enough, e.g. data visualisations via jupyter notebooks. So you're stuck with some horribly slow solutions or non-interactive ones giving you pngs. Since you're plotting data, the text is minimal and the needed dialogs etc. are also minimal (clicking on a point and getting a label) or having a few options to rotate/turn on some features/zoom. And pngs with rendered text is as inaccessible as it gets, although data-visualisation may be fundamentally incompatible with accessibility tools since it is all about seeing stuff. So I usually produce pngs via matplotlib and only selectively use interactive, js based, visualisations but they are get so unbelievable slow quickly when that your whole tab freezes.

chrismorgan 3y ago
I believe you’ve misunderstood my intent. When I speak of the pure canvas approach, I mean throwing away almost all that the browser gives you, and rendering everything in a single canvas, with fake scrolling, fake links, &c. For individual widgets like data visualisation, go ahead, use canvas if you want; I won’t complain—though make sure if you have any links in it that you have actual <a> links on top of the canvas for the user to interact with. And also consider if you can SVG. Anyway, individual canvases are fine; but don’t put everything in a single canvas. Things like Google Docs and Figma are often cited as examples of how canvas-based rendering can be not bad, but neither are pure canvas: the user interface of both is full DOM, and it’s only the document area that’s canvas. (Also, I find Google Docs somewhat unpleasant: its rendering latency and throughput while you type is terrible, and keyboard caret navigation doesn’t match my platform’s behaviour in many places.) See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33863185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33863185 (similar content to this comment).
- LeanderK 3y ago
  ah ok, now I get what you mean. Yeah, doing everything in canvas is in general a bad approach for all the reasons you listed.

chrismorgan 3y ago

I believe you’ve misunderstood my intent. When I speak of the pure canvas approach, I mean throwing away almost all that the browser gives you, and rendering everything in a single canvas, with fake scrolling, fake links, &c. For individual widgets like data visualisation, go ahead, use canvas if you want; I won’t complain—though make sure if you have any links in it that you have actual <a> links on top of the canvas for the user to interact with. And also consider if you can SVG. Anyway, individual canvases are fine; but don’t put everything in a single canvas. Things like Google Docs and Figma are often cited as examples of how canvas-based rendering can be not bad, but neither are pure canvas: the user interface of both is full DOM, and it’s only the document area that’s canvas. (Also, I find Google Docs somewhat unpleasant: its rendering latency and throughput while you type is terrible, and keyboard caret navigation doesn’t match my platform’s behaviour in many places.) See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33863185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33863185 (similar content to this comment).

LeanderK 3y ago
ah ok, now I get what you mean. Yeah, doing everything in canvas is in general a bad approach for all the reasons you listed.